Time travel.

[J.T.B.]

Also, there's no evidence that he actually created Johnny B. Goode. For all we know, Chuck Berry could have been fuming on the other side of that phone as he heard some punk ass bitch playing the song he was working on when his cousin called.

OK, but the implication is clearly that Marty gave Berry the inspiration for the song. Otherwise, what a pointless addition to the movie.

--Justin

 

[Harvey]

Technically, I suppose you're right, Checkmate. But I also have to agree with J.T.B.. The implication of the scene is pretty plain. Which, I must repeat, is not that Marty invented the song.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

OK, but the implication is clearly that Marty gave Berry the inspiration for the song. Otherwise, what a pointless addition to the movie.

--Justin

Pointless? When did the world get so serious? Holy crap!

You see, there's this thing called "comedy"...

 

[J.T.B.]

OK, but the implication is clearly that Marty gave Berry the inspiration for the song. Otherwise, what a pointless addition to the movie.

--Justin

Pointless? When did the world get so serious? Holy crap!

You see, there's this thing called "comedy"...

Sure, but we're discussing aspects of time travel stories, not comedy.

--Justin

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Sure, but we're discussing aspects of time travel stories, not comedy.

--Justin

If you're talking about Back to the Future, you're talking about a comedy.

Not a scientific documentary on time travel. Sometimes the point of a scene was simply to make a joke and get a laugh out of the audience.


In a thread discussing the realities of space travel, does one bash the science of Space Balls to make their points as well?

 

[Skippy 2k]

I generally like time travel stories, love the Back to the Future movies, though I think it started to be a bit much in Trek. I don't know if anyone remembers the show 7 days? Going back to appearing in space because of the moving earth It seems he had to account for that and sometimes materialized underground, in the ocean or space? Also instead of traveling back and being two of himself he basicly replaced himself along with anything in the sphere. I kinda liked it as being a bit different than usually depicted.

 

[J.T.B.]

Sure, but we're discussing aspects of time travel stories, not comedy.

--Justin

If you're talking about Back to the Future, you're talking about a comedy.

Not a scientific documentary on time travel. Sometimes the point of a scene was simply to make a joke and get a laugh out of the audience.

Obviously. But for the sake of argument, I and some other participants were taking BTTF's time travel implications seriously. It is, after all, one of the more universally-known time travel stories, and the situations it presents are useful examples for a discussion such as this.

In a thread discussing the realities of space travel, does one bash the science of Space Balls to make their points as well?

I wouldn't call pointing out a possible minor inconsistency for the sake of a discussion "bashing." But if Spaceballs provided an example that was illustrative of someone's point, why not?

--Justin

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Spaceballs [/I]provided an example that was illustrative of someone's point, why not?

--Justin

Okay, well put.

Ironic that in my postings of not taking the movie so seriously, I'm for some reason taking this more seriously than I should!!

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I don't know if anyone remembers the show 7 days? Going back to appearing in space because of the moving earth It seems he had to account for that and sometimes materialized underground, in the ocean or space? Also instead of traveling back and being two of himself he basicly replaced himself along with anything in the sphere. I kinda liked it as being a bit different than usually depicted.

I remember 7 Days. ATTENTION CBS-DVD!!!! Release 7 Days on DVD!!!!!!!

I never understood the whole "don't touch yourself" stipulation, either. I mean, even if you did, and assuming all the same atoms where in tact (which they wouldn't, as mentioned earlier in the thread), the matter still wouldn't be occupying the same space. Your past/future self is occupying that space.

Not to mention that I can't think of a single instance that included that rule where it was demonstrated to be true.

Not to mention the human body is constantly shedding & exchanging cells. IIRC, it takes 7 years for the body to completely cycle through a new set of cells.

A problem I have had with time travel stories recently is where the time machine moves through time but not space but they forget that the earth is not a static location. It moves all the time. When Marty went back to 1955 he shouldn't have ended up at that farm. He should have wound up in the cold vacuum of space.

But all motion is relative, so the time machine simply remains relative to the Earth as a point of reference.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I remember a novel where they did take that into account. It takes place in two different time periods: the future, where the environment is severely polluted and on the verge of collapse, and the near past (~1962). Scientists from the future attempt to send a message into the past to change history so that the environmental collapse won't ever happen. They do this by aiming the message at the portion of space where the Earth will pass through in the target time period.

Unfortunately I can't remember the actual name of the novel, but I do remember its existence.

 

[Mistral]

^ I remember a novel where they did take that into account. It takes place in two different time periods: the future, where the environment is severely polluted and on the verge of collapse, and the near past (~1962). Scientists from the future attempt to send a message into the past to change history so that the environmental collapse won't ever happen. They do this by aiming the message at the portion of space where the Earth will pass through in the target time period.

Unfortunately I can't remember the actual name of the novel, but I do remember its existence.

James Hogan wrote it but I can't remember which novel.

 

[DrCorby]

I highly suggest By His Bootstraps by Heinlein for an example of paradoxes at work, The Technicolor Time Machine for a commentary on casuality and The Man Who Shot Lincoln for an analysis of paradox consequences.

Larry Niven decided that, if time travel was a fantasy, trying to time travel could cause you to end up in a multitude of fantastic places. His "Svetz" stories feature his protagonist sent back in time to retrieve various animals and objects, but rather ending up with fantastic creatures like unicorns, werewolves and rocs.

He also had some interesting stories about travel to alternate realities. Good stuff.

 

[Silvercrest]

The traditional form of time travel we're used to seeing in Star Trek, Stargate, Back to the Future, etc. wherein persons from the future travel to the past and (whether intentionally or not) cause changes to occur that affect the timeline and change future events. Essentially, choice dictates how the future unfolds.

If this was possible, time travel would not exist.

Upon the building of the time machine, people would start messing around with the past. Things would be changed. They'd keep doing it. Eventually, inevitably, they'd change something that would prevent the time machine from being built.

Therefore, time travel would not exist.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timescape

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

^ I remember a novel where they did take that into account. It takes place in two different time periods: the future, where the environment is severely polluted and on the verge of collapse, and the near past (~1962). Scientists from the future attempt to send a message into the past to change history so that the environmental collapse won't ever happen. They do this by aiming the message at the portion of space where the Earth will pass through in the target time period.

Unfortunately I can't remember the actual name of the novel, but I do remember its existence.

James Hogan wrote it but I can't remember which novel.

I think Mr. Laser Beam describes Gregory Benford's Timescape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timescape

The story is written from two viewpoints, equidistant from the novel's publication in 1980. The first thread is set in a 1998 ravaged by ecological disasters such as algal blooms and diebacks on the brink of large scale extinctions. Various other events are mentioned in passing, such as student riots and an event of nuclear terrorism against New York City which took place before the events of the novel. This thread follows a group of scientists in the United Kingdom connected with the University of Cambridge and their attempts to warn the past of the impending disaster by sending tachyon-induced messages to the astronomical position the Earth occupied in 1962-1963. Given the faster-than-light nature of the tachyon, these messages will effectively reach the past. These efforts are led by John Renfrew, an Englishman, and Gregory Markham, an American most likely modelled on Benford himself[4]. Overseeing their efforts is Ian Peterson, a womanizing member of the World Council.

 

[Gojira]

I love time travel stories they are my favorite in science fiction. I don't care which type of time travel is used they're all good!

 

[Mistral]

^ I remember a novel where they did take that into account. It takes place in two different time periods: the future, where the environment is severely polluted and on the verge of collapse, and the near past (~1962). Scientists from the future attempt to send a message into the past to change history so that the environmental collapse won't ever happen. They do this by aiming the message at the portion of space where the Earth will pass through in the target time period.

Unfortunately I can't remember the actual name of the novel, but I do remember its existence.

James Hogan wrote it but I can't remember which novel.

I think Mr. Laser Beam describes Gregory Benford's Timescape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timescape

The story is written from two viewpoints, equidistant from the novel's publication in 1980. The first thread is set in a 1998 ravaged by ecological disasters such as algal blooms and diebacks on the brink of large scale extinctions. Various other events are mentioned in passing, such as student riots and an event of nuclear terrorism against New York City which took place before the events of the novel. This thread follows a group of scientists in the United Kingdom connected with the University of Cambridge and their attempts to warn the past of the impending disaster by sending tachyon-induced messages to the astronomical position the Earth occupied in 1962-1963. Given the faster-than-light nature of the tachyon, these messages will effectively reach the past. These efforts are led by John Renfrew, an Englishman, and Gregory Markham, an American most likely modelled on Benford himself[4]. Overseeing their efforts is Ian Peterson, a womanizing member of the World Council.

I think I confused what they were looking for with Thrice Upon A Time by Hogan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrice_Upon_a_Time

It's been years....

 

[stj]

I can enjoy most any of them if they keep a light touch and a modicum of internal consistency. But I can't take seriously any more the ones with paradoxes. Paradoxes just do not exist.

I rather doubt causal loops can actually exist, but since I can't make a serious argument that they are impossible, I can take them more seriously.

I would like to see a time machine that actually takes into account real physics. Shocking as it may seem, closed timelike curves (aka time travel) are permitted by general relativity! (Or our current understanding thereof.) True, they are practical impossibilities. That would be the fictional science.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think Mr. Laser Beam describes Gregory Benford's Timescape.

That's the one!

And here's a great time travel story: The episode "Tribunal" from the new version of The Outer Limits.

 

[Davros]

A problem I have had with time travel stories recently is where the time machine moves through time but not space but they forget that the earth is not a static location. It moves all the time. When Marty went back to 1955 he shouldn't have ended up at that farm. He should have wound up in the cold vacuum of space.

No, because they are traveling through the time/SPACE continuum. Time and space are inseparably linked.

But the location they started out at moved so the same space at a different time would be the vacuum of space and not the planet.