Spoilers Time Travel Troubles

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Search4, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

    Mar 15, 2008
    New York City
    So I have really enjoyed Discovery S2. Just rewatched the season end and enjoyed it.

    But - we have time travel troubles. I can grasp time loops but - but - not information out of the ether.

    Fact: Mom did not create the red signals. Burnham did.

    Fact: a red signal led them to the asteroid where they found Jett and the Hiawatha.

    Fact: no one knew the Hiawatha was there before they went.

    Fact: a month or three later Burnham sent the signal back at the original time.

    So - no one ever knew where Hiawatha was but Burnham did because of Burnham’s signal. The information to go there (and some of the other places) literally comes from nowhere.

    Mom didn’t know. She actually wasn’t there.
    Spock learned of it from the signals.
    Burnham learned of it from - Burnham. How, exactly? Be specific. It’s never shown or hinted at.

    The others:

    Mom knew of Terralysium - ok - but didn’t set the signals. Burnham could get that location from mom and her suit data. That works.

    Kaminar: mom wasn’t there so it’s also a problem.

    Boreth: mom wasn’t there so it’s also a problem.

    No wonder Spock went nuts over this - it actually doesn’t make sense as presented unless someone else had the info and is feeding Discovery.
    Phoenix219 and RedAlert like this.
  2. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

    May 19, 2005
    Far North Chicago Suburbs
    Careful or you'll go all cross-eyed.
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

    Jan 30, 2001
    Escaped from Trumpistan
    Best to just not think about it.
    ITDUDE likes this.
  4. Lundberg

    Lundberg Ensign Red Shirt

    Jan 29, 2006
    remember in voyagers second episode when they investigated something timey after receiving a distress call from a ship stuck in it and got stuck themselves then sent a distress call only to realize they received their own distress call hours before actually sending it? yeah its like that.
    Ravenswood, Ovation, urbandk and 2 others like this.
  5. Galaxy

    Galaxy Commander Red Shirt

    May 19, 2017
    Those are all examples of predestination paradoxes. The only way for Discovery to see the signal is if Burnham goes back in time. She teaches herself the location in effect.
  6. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

    Jan 26, 2019
    Also when Data sent the transmissions to the next loop in Cause in Effect, which was sorta into the past technically.
  7. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Commodore Commodore

    Aug 15, 2001
    Kinda like Somewhere in Time, where Jane Seymour gives Chris Reeve the pocket watch in the beginning of the movie. He takes it back in time, gives it to Jane Seymour, who keeps it and gives it to him later on.

    The watch itself is a closed loop, uncreated. It comes from nowhere.
    Pauln6, Ovation, TrickyDickie and 2 others like this.
  8. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

    Jan 26, 2019
    Or of course the main character of Predestination. If you want to challenge yourself futher, read the original novella, "All you Zombies" or the much crazier "The Man Who Folded Himself" by Tribbles writer David Gerrold. man...
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  9. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 7, 2016
    stuck between a rock and a kiss-ass place
    I don't see a problem with any of it. This stuff was very tame, compared to--say--Series Six of Doctor Who.
    seigezunt likes this.
  10. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

    Jan 26, 2019
    Or my favorite, Mawdren Undead from '83..
    seigezunt and Jinn like this.
  11. The Librarian

    The Librarian Commodore Commodore

    Feb 1, 2002
    It's not that different than what Picard experiences in "All Good Things", where the entire thing is a big predestination paradox. In this case it looks like we're seeing the end result of an iterated time loop.

    ETA: While not Trek, "Agents of SHIELD" spent last season dealing with a similar situation, where it turned out they were looking at the results of an unknown number of repeated loops, with each one providing a bit more information and preparation, until a seemingly unwinnable situation was solvable.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
    Alan Roi likes this.
  12. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    May 12, 2004
    Lancaster, PA

    Something similar happens in "The Anubis Gates" by Tim Powers, where a scholar goes back in time and ends up writing (from memory) a famous 18th century poem he learned in college. Like the pocket watch, the poem is a paradox that seemingly comes from nowhere.

    Great book, btw.
    Jedi Marso likes this.
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 15, 2000
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Mom was creating new branches or overwriting time. CHANGES WERE BEING MADE.

    Daughter was in a predestination loop.
  14. MvRojo

    MvRojo Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 22, 2001
    Bay Area, CA
    Or like the glasses McCoy gives Kirk in TWOK, which Kirk sells in TVH, so that in the future McCoy can get them for Kirk.
  15. TrickyDickie

    TrickyDickie Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jan 9, 2003
    In a painting, darkly.
    Nope, that was Susan French.

    Now, if you had said Elise and Richard....

  16. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 27, 2002
    Which would make the watch and glasses impossibly old. It is more likely both were new when bought and when sent back in time they were not reused in some kind of infinity loop. The watch was most likely bought for resemblance to the original and thus unknowingly became the original.
    Phoenix219 likes this.
  17. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    May 15, 2001
    http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/treknology/timetravel-dis.htm (yeah yeah, but the write up is pretty accurate, factually speaking)
    Best not to think to closely about it.
    Longinus likes this.
  18. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jan 10, 2007
    Northeastern Pennsylvania
    Maybe this explanation will help you:

    USS Triumphant likes this.
  19. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Commodore Commodore

    Feb 21, 2012
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Um, it comes from when Discovery went to the asteroid?

    I'm not following your issue with this case.
    penguin44 likes this.
  20. Kahlesh

    Kahlesh Captain Captain

    Feb 14, 2019
    Bootstrap paradox.
    Mr. Laser Beam likes this.