Spoilers Time Travel Troubles

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Search4, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

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    So I have really enjoyed Discovery S2. Just rewatched the season end and enjoyed it.

    But - we have time travel troubles. I can grasp time loops but - but - not information out of the ether.

    Fact: Mom did not create the red signals. Burnham did.

    Fact: a red signal led them to the asteroid where they found Jett and the Hiawatha.

    Fact: no one knew the Hiawatha was there before they went.

    Fact: a month or three later Burnham sent the signal back at the original time.

    So - no one ever knew where Hiawatha was but Burnham did because of Burnham’s signal. The information to go there (and some of the other places) literally comes from nowhere.

    Mom didn’t know. She actually wasn’t there.
    Spock learned of it from the signals.
    Burnham learned of it from - Burnham. How, exactly? Be specific. It’s never shown or hinted at.

    The others:

    Mom knew of Terralysium - ok - but didn’t set the signals. Burnham could get that location from mom and her suit data. That works.

    Kaminar: mom wasn’t there so it’s also a problem.

    Boreth: mom wasn’t there so it’s also a problem.

    No wonder Spock went nuts over this - it actually doesn’t make sense as presented unless someone else had the info and is feeding Discovery.
     
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  2. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Careful or you'll go all cross-eyed.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Best to just not think about it.
     
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  4. Lundberg

    Lundberg Ensign Newbie

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    remember in voyagers second episode when they investigated something timey after receiving a distress call from a ship stuck in it and got stuck themselves then sent a distress call only to realize they received their own distress call hours before actually sending it? yeah its like that.
     
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  5. Galaxy

    Galaxy Commander Red Shirt

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    Those are all examples of predestination paradoxes. The only way for Discovery to see the signal is if Burnham goes back in time. She teaches herself the location in effect.
     
  6. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Also when Data sent the transmissions to the next loop in Cause in Effect, which was sorta into the past technically.
     
  7. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Commodore Commodore

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    Kinda like Somewhere in Time, where Jane Seymour gives Chris Reeve the pocket watch in the beginning of the movie. He takes it back in time, gives it to Jane Seymour, who keeps it and gives it to him later on.

    The watch itself is a closed loop, uncreated. It comes from nowhere.
     
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  8. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Or of course the main character of Predestination. If you want to challenge yourself futher, read the original novella, "All you Zombies" or the much crazier "The Man Who Folded Himself" by Tribbles writer David Gerrold. man...
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  9. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Captain Captain

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    I don't see a problem with any of it. This stuff was very tame, compared to--say--Series Six of Doctor Who.
     
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  10. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Or my favorite, Mawdren Undead from '83..
     
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  11. The Librarian

    The Librarian Commodore Commodore

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    It's not that different than what Picard experiences in "All Good Things", where the entire thing is a big predestination paradox. In this case it looks like we're seeing the end result of an iterated time loop.

    ETA: While not Trek, "Agents of SHIELD" spent last season dealing with a similar situation, where it turned out they were looking at the results of an unknown number of repeated loops, with each one providing a bit more information and preparation, until a seemingly unwinnable situation was solvable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
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  12. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Something similar happens in "The Anubis Gates" by Tim Powers, where a scholar goes back in time and ends up writing (from memory) a famous 18th century poem he learned in college. Like the pocket watch, the poem is a paradox that seemingly comes from nowhere.

    Great book, btw.
     
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  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Mom was creating new branches or overwriting time. CHANGES WERE BEING MADE.

    Daughter was in a predestination loop.
     
  14. MvRojo

    MvRojo Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or like the glasses McCoy gives Kirk in TWOK, which Kirk sells in TVH, so that in the future McCoy can get them for Kirk.
     
  15. TrickyDickie

    TrickyDickie Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nope, that was Susan French.

    Now, if you had said Elise and Richard....

    :p:D
     
  16. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which would make the watch and glasses impossibly old. It is more likely both were new when bought and when sent back in time they were not reused in some kind of infinity loop. The watch was most likely bought for resemblance to the original and thus unknowingly became the original.
     
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  17. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/treknology/timetravel-dis.htm (yeah yeah, but the write up is pretty accurate, factually speaking)
    Best not to think to closely about it.
     
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  18. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe this explanation will help you:

     
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  19. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Commodore Commodore

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    Um, it comes from when Discovery went to the asteroid?

    I'm not following your issue with this case.
     
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  20. StametsFungi

    StametsFungi Commander Red Shirt

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    Bootstrap paradox.
     
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