Spoilers Time travel issues S2

[gweeps]

Q can't be responsible for splitting the time line because he has no powers by the time it splits, which is something he should already know as he's screaming at Picard in episode 2 about penance.

Oooh I didn't think of this. So maybe Q's manipulations aren't nefarious? Still, he did say "The trial never ends." Also he denied doing anything when Picard accused him. And yet he said he looked for the "nearest explosion" when he wanted to see Picard again.

 

[fireproof78]

Oooh I didn't think of this. So maybe Q's manipulations aren't nefarious? Still, he did say "The trial never ends." Also he denied doing anything when Picard accused him. And yet he said he looked for the "nearest explosion" when he wanted to see Picard again.

Which is odd considering it was Janeway who liked to blow things up and the Q caused novas.

 

[gweeps]

I still think it would be a great throwback if Q's son and partner came to take him home at the end of the season because he's sick.

 

[Llywela]

Oooh I didn't think of this. So maybe Q's manipulations aren't nefarious? Still, he did say "The trial never ends." Also he denied doing anything when Picard accused him. And yet he said he looked for the "nearest explosion" when he wanted to see Picard again.

He also admitted that he intervened at the moment of the explosion, and that he'd made sure Picard wouldn't be alone on his quest. I don't think there's much doubt that it was Q who extracted Picard and the team (basically, everyone in the vicinity with whom Picard had an actual relationship of some kind) from the moment of the explosion and deposited them in an alternate timestream. What he denied, I think, was creating that alternate timestream in the first place. But we're not even halfway through the season, so don't have enough information to put all the pieces together yet. We will understand more when we do!

 

[gweeps]

It just occurred to me. How cool would it be if Season 3's villain was somehow the Confederation version of Picard?

 

[Yistaan]

It just occurred to me. How cool would it be if Season 3's villain was somehow the Confederation version of Picard?

Laris: Praetor Shinzon, is that you?

 

[Tomalak]

Oooh I didn't think of this. So maybe Q's manipulations aren't nefarious? Still, he did say "The trial never ends." Also he denied doing anything when Picard accused him. And yet he said he looked for the "nearest explosion" when he wanted to see Picard again.

Q is absolutely not being nefarious. He's trying to help Picard, in his own torturous way, like in Tapestry and All Good Things. He's pissed off because Picard disappointed him, and he's going to teach him a lesson.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Q that sent Picard sideways, and the Q that haunts him on the bridge, is a Future version of Q from after he got his powers back.

 

[gweeps]

The Q that sent Picard sideways, and the Q that haunts him on the bridge, is a Future version of Q from after he got his powers back.

From Picard and our perspective? Q exists outside of normal space/time.

 

[fireproof78]

And the Q who loved me.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

John de Lancie said many times in pre season 2 interviews that Q is trying to help Jean-Luc. So yeah. That “he’s trying to help” theory is sound, I’d say.

 

[dupersuper]

Okay so, time travel.

Guinan did not know Picard because, with an altered future comes an altered past and "Time's Arrow" did not happen (which also means Data's head isn't under San Francisco in the Kelvin timeline and I'm devastated BUT)

Well, it means Kelvin Data's head isn't necessarily under Kelvin San Francisco. We won't know until we see what happens in the 24th century of the Kelvin timeline.

So surely the punk on the bus should still be an asshole since he wouldn't have experienced Star Trek IV because that's the erased future too.

He wouldn't have experienced Star Trek IV, but he may have experienced something worse. A fascist Earth rising in the 21st century wouldn't likely effect the whale probe coming here, but the people (possibly a version of Kirk & crew) may not have been nearly as nice.

I didn't say IN his mind.
I said FROM his mind.
Everything they are experiencing is a Q creation.

That's why all bets are off.

Are you basing this assumption on anything?

I care about the the thought and the work the people involved put into these shows. None of it deserves to be dismissed because some folks can't wrap their minds around the idea that nothing's perfect.

I'd hardly call changing a date to fit into the rest of Trek "dismissing the writers work". How important to the story do you think that random date is?

So how are they supposed to fix things? If this is already the Confederation's past, how can anything done here lead to the Federation's future? Isn't it already too late?

Logically speaking, how can two different pasts lead to the same future?

Just the one past, which will be restored when the future in which all of the previous time travel adventures occur is restored.

 

[DaveyNY]

Are you basing this assumption on anything?

Yeah, the end of the very first episode.
Q snapped his finger and created a completely different timeline convergence.

Everybody on the U.S.S. Stargazer died.
None of this would be even remotely possible if Q had not interfered.
They've even expressly told us on many occasions that something Q does creates the CONFEDERATION.
(and have actually showed us Him attempting to dissuade Renee Picard from going on the Europa mission)
We've also seen his powers not work, so even He doesn't know exactly what is going to be the final outcome.

 

[dupersuper]

Yeah, the end of the very first episode.
Q snapped his finger and created a completely different timeline convergence.

Everybody on the U.S.S. Stargazer died.
None of this would be even remotely possible if Q had not interfered.
They've even expressly told us on many occasions that something Q does creates the CONFEDERATION.
(and have actually showed us Him attempting to dissuade Renee Picard from going on the Europa mission)
We've also seen his powers not work, so even He doesn't know exactly what is going to be the final outcome.

It's a long way from "Q mucked with the timeline" to "everything is a Q creation", especially sine - as you say - his powers are on the fritz.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's a long way from "Q mucked with the timeline" to "everything is a Q creation", especially sine - as you say - his powers are on the fritz.

Omnipotent and omniscient Q makes a sweet plan to save the day, that will unfortunately cause himself to lose his powers during the middle of the plan, but omniscient and omnipotent Q before that happens, has faith that almost mortal Q will muddle through, save the day and restore his powers, despite being criminally pathetic.

 

[Deks]

Dr Manhattan (Blue naked guy) from Watchmen was aware of every moment of his life, always, but just because he knew a moment was coming, he couldn't skip any of it, because "Every one has been the Scarecrow".

Either Q is like that, or something weird is happening.

Q can't be responsible for splitting the time line because he has no powers by the time it splits, which is something he should already know as he's screaming at Picard in episode 2 about penance.

How do we know that?
Q had his powers in episode 2 because he kept flashing in front of Picard and vanishing... he also made himself appear only to Jean Luc (and no one else) at the time.
Q DID appear 'not well' however, and its possible that the creation of the Confederacy (aka the time split in 202) had something to do with it.

If Q wasn't responsible for changing the timeline... then WHY was he in 2024?
Why get himself involved with Renee Picard and Soong?

Granted, it IS possible that Q might be trying to FIX the timeline to ensure UFP comes to be... but I find this very unlikely.

Oooh I didn't think of this. So maybe Q's manipulations aren't nefarious? Still, he did say "The trial never ends." Also he denied doing anything when Picard accused him. And yet he said he looked for the "nearest explosion" when he wanted to see Picard again.

While it IS possible that Q might be trying to bring about UFP timeline... the problem here is... he never had much of an interest in helping Humanity apart from setting up tests for them.
Unless that the time split affects the Q continuum negatively and Q is sent to the past to make it right.

Problem here is, we don't have an indication that this whole thing is a predestination paradox... meaning that Picard and his crew couldn't really cause the Confederacy timeline unless Q messed things up in the first place.
Because, the gang only went back in time when the timeline was altered.

Q did say that the Confederacy was a world of their own making... but how?
Picard and the lot exploded in the UFP timeline after encountering the new Borg, and the only reason they found themselves in their Confederacy counterparts bodies was because of Q... so how would they have had a chance to affect the past if Q didn't mess things up in the first place?

Even in All Good Things, remember that while Picard was technically responsible for causing the anti-time anomaly, it was because of Q he went looking for it in the first place and ended up creating it.
So it was Q who caused the issue... and he DID admit to Jean Luc he got him into this entire mess too.

 

[Farscape One]

An odd thought came to me.

Since the Federation didn't form in this timeline, that means Voyager never got stranded in the Delta Quadrant. Which means Quinn would never get taken out of that comet, have his hearing, become mortal, and Q gets him hemlock.

What if that was a key thing for the Q? Like, that event and civil war undoes their eons of stagnation. Without it, the stagnation continues, and they die off from cellular boredom (refer to DS9's "IN THE CARDS"). By undoing Quinn, it undoes Q's powers because it undid the Continuum.

 

[gweeps]

Whatever the ultimate reason/responsibility for this all ends up being, I hope it makes a decent amount of sense. John de Lancie did say the stakes are high for Q as well.

 

[Yistaan]

Well, it means Kelvin Data's head isn't necessarily under Kelvin San Francisco. We won't know until we see what happens in the 24th century of the Kelvin timeline.

I'm sorry but these new time travel rules in Picard affect more than just Data's head. Enterprise is officially a prequel to the Kelvin Timeline, with Krall fighting the Xindi, etc. Yet the entire first 3 seasons of Enterprise would have had to have happened differently, with no Temporal Wars and no Borg episode.

 

[zenophite]

How did the Confederation deal with the Whale Probe?

Clearly they blew it out of the stars