Time To Come Out...
- Thread starter Bry_Sinclair
- Start date
1. TNG season 3 would like to have a word with you.
2. I love nuBSG, but it's not better than TOS. Not by a long shot in a frozen-over hell.
Which TOS are you talking about, BSG or ST? The default on this board I suppose would be that TOS means ST, but even so I ask, because I've seen some BSG fans refer to oldBSG as simply TOS.
Sorry, I meant Star Trek TOS. The poster I replied to said that nuBSG was not better than TNG or DS9, and the other trek series were not far behind.
Just clarifying.
1. TNG season 3 would like to have a word with you.
2. I love nuBSG, but it's not better than TOS. Not by a long shot in a frozen-over hell.
These aren't things you're expected to agree with, although interestingly enough my point was about BSG being overrated compared to the other shows.
I understand that. It was meant in fun, hence the little emoji had in there.
I loved Carbon Creek.
I liked both "Captain's Holiday" and "Carbon Creek."
I hate Voyager. I mean I hate, hate, hate, Hate, HATE Voyager.
But I didn't want to. I kept trying to like it. I even convinced myself that I did for a while. And I don't hate the premise. I don't hate any of the actors involved with it. I don't even hate the characters, or at least, I think all the characters have potential.
But Voyager, as it exists, is the absolute worst series in the entire franchise. Yes, even Enterprise was better. Enterprise had a terrific fourth season, and I even liked a majority of its third. Voyager had not a single season I would recommend. There were occasional pearls of good to be found in the slime that was the series in general, but no season had more good episodes than bad.
But what was so bad about it? Well, for starters it was the most stereotypical, humdrum, aimless, boring, repetitive, homogenized, safe, white-bread series of them all. It took the least risks in terms of story and character and seemed to have the least purpose of them all. It was all the methodical episodic meandering of TOS and TNG but with absolutely none of the charm of either of those series. Each episode was "Captain's Log, Stardate 90210 carry the 4: we have encountered a random Planet of Hats and there's a problem that needs solving. I'm confident we can get it done in 40 minutes without much muss or fuss. My hair won't even get out of place, and the ship will survive unscathed."
Second, it rejected its own premise. There was so much potential for good, solid drama from the concept of two disparate crews, both ideologically opposed to one another, being forced to work together in order to accomplish a mutually beneficial goal, but having no other help. And that premise was spectacularly wasted. It turned into Star Trek by rote, Trek on autopilot, and at no point did I feel these people's desperation to get home, or the idea that getting home would provide them with anything they currently lack. There was lip service given to the idea that they have to get supplies from this planet, or something along those lines, but that was always the setup for the plot of the episode, rather than the plot itself. The Maquis crewmembers eventually just started acting like Starfleet officers, and precious little conflict occurred as a result. Sure, I know after a while most of those differences would change, but they wouldn't disappear all together. I never once was worried that the ship itself was in any real danger, and as for the crew, well, they never really acted that way, either. They still used the replicators and played on the holodeck, despite the idea that holodeck time and replicator rations were apparently rationed. No one really behaved as if that was true, and it was mostly used to keep the running gag about having to eat Neelix's awful food going.
In addition, the crew really should have, if not become more fractious than before, started to act more and more like a real family. They didn't. The senior staff hardly ever even interacted with anyone but themselves, and it was frequent that a crew member would be treated by them as if they didn't even know their names. There were only a couple of recurring characters, with most of the really interesting ones dying early on (or simply disappearing) or being used only here and there.
Third, the characters weren't allowed to progress. Harry Kim in season one is Harry Kim in season seven. Same with Tom Paris, Neelix, Tuvok, Chakotay, you name it. They were all colorless ciphers. This isn't to take anything away from the actors, who all did as fine a job as they could with what they were given, but damn, after two series in a row with wholly fleshed-out, real characters that felt like family, these guys might as well have been cardboard cut-outs, and their names might as well have been Captain, First Officer, Vulcan, Ensign, etc.
Finally, Voyager ruined the Borg. Any teeth they might have had were pulled by the time Voyager was finished with them. They went from a truly scary race to a race I hope we never see again.
But I didn't want to. I kept trying to like it. I even convinced myself that I did for a while. And I don't hate the premise. I don't hate any of the actors involved with it. I don't even hate the characters, or at least, I think all the characters have potential.
But Voyager, as it exists, is the absolute worst series in the entire franchise. Yes, even Enterprise was better. Enterprise had a terrific fourth season, and I even liked a majority of its third. Voyager had not a single season I would recommend. There were occasional pearls of good to be found in the slime that was the series in general, but no season had more good episodes than bad.
But what was so bad about it? Well, for starters it was the most stereotypical, humdrum, aimless, boring, repetitive, homogenized, safe, white-bread series of them all. It took the least risks in terms of story and character and seemed to have the least purpose of them all. It was all the methodical episodic meandering of TOS and TNG but with absolutely none of the charm of either of those series. Each episode was "Captain's Log, Stardate 90210 carry the 4: we have encountered a random Planet of Hats and there's a problem that needs solving. I'm confident we can get it done in 40 minutes without much muss or fuss. My hair won't even get out of place, and the ship will survive unscathed."
Second, it rejected its own premise. There was so much potential for good, solid drama from the concept of two disparate crews, both ideologically opposed to one another, being forced to work together in order to accomplish a mutually beneficial goal, but having no other help. And that premise was spectacularly wasted. It turned into Star Trek by rote, Trek on autopilot, and at no point did I feel these people's desperation to get home, or the idea that getting home would provide them with anything they currently lack. There was lip service given to the idea that they have to get supplies from this planet, or something along those lines, but that was always the setup for the plot of the episode, rather than the plot itself. The Maquis crewmembers eventually just started acting like Starfleet officers, and precious little conflict occurred as a result. Sure, I know after a while most of those differences would change, but they wouldn't disappear all together. I never once was worried that the ship itself was in any real danger, and as for the crew, well, they never really acted that way, either. They still used the replicators and played on the holodeck, despite the idea that holodeck time and replicator rations were apparently rationed. No one really behaved as if that was true, and it was mostly used to keep the running gag about having to eat Neelix's awful food going.
In addition, the crew really should have, if not become more fractious than before, started to act more and more like a real family. They didn't. The senior staff hardly ever even interacted with anyone but themselves, and it was frequent that a crew member would be treated by them as if they didn't even know their names. There were only a couple of recurring characters, with most of the really interesting ones dying early on (or simply disappearing) or being used only here and there.
Third, the characters weren't allowed to progress. Harry Kim in season one is Harry Kim in season seven. Same with Tom Paris, Neelix, Tuvok, Chakotay, you name it. They were all colorless ciphers. This isn't to take anything away from the actors, who all did as fine a job as they could with what they were given, but damn, after two series in a row with wholly fleshed-out, real characters that felt like family, these guys might as well have been cardboard cut-outs, and their names might as well have been Captain, First Officer, Vulcan, Ensign, etc.
Finally, Voyager ruined the Borg. Any teeth they might have had were pulled by the time Voyager was finished with them. They went from a truly scary race to a race I hope we never see again.
You're crazy. Voyager is a fantastic series. It has some of the most competent actors of any Trek, great directing, wonderful themes, incredible stories. And it has ADVENTURE. If you want dark, Voyager easily has some of the darkest episodes in Star Trek. I can't praise it enough.
Suffice it to say I couldn't disagree more. But this is the thread for admitting opinions that might not be popular. This is why, despite numerous posters saying they hate Deep Space Nine as much as I hate Voyager, I silently moved on. I think DS9 was the absolute best series of the franchise, but then, to each their own.
Voyager was the show I was most disappointed with. So many missed opportunities. Didn't help that the all-time worst character of the franchise was hamming up the show either. Not to mention Neelix.
Wang is a fine enough actor. I'm not sure who the worst would be. In the early years of every show there some awful performances. I think Denise Crosby might qualify, considering she didn't stick around and thus, never improved. Anthony Montgomery had some embarrassing scenes, but others he was okay in.
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