Time Crack is stupid

[Admiral_Young]

How could only some of reality be repaired? I don't get this line of thinking. The purpose of the reset was to repair what the crack had damaged. Amy was the key by remembering the Doctor which in turn is the key to everything exsiting in my opinion. Now if in the future at some point the Doctor all of a sudden doesn't remember the Invasion we've got a major problem as I have stated before. Remember the RTD Daleks are supposed to be returning or at least Moffat has said they're not totally gone.

 

[DWF]

I can't see every least little detail in the universe being fixed something's got to be missing.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Then why bother with the reset at all? Or having Amy remember the Doctor? The key to me with this debate IS the Doctor.

 

[DWF]

Then why bother with the reset at all? Or having Amy remember the Doctor? The key to me with this debate IS the Doctor.

The Doctor remains the same more or less but a minor reset allows them to do things without the full weight of the entire show's continuity on their backs.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Moffat has already done that though. My point in this entire debate has been that it seems to be a fan mentality that the Dalek Invasion didn't happen and EJA has offered up minor examples that attempt to support that view. The fact is though that we only have Amy's word that SHE herself doesn't remember. That doesn't mean that everyone else automatically don't remember too. That's flawed logic.

 

[EJA]

I have heard that the forthcoming Torchwood: Miracle Day is set on an Earth were no one remembers any of the past alien invasions. Add to that what's said in SJA "The Vault of Secrets", and....well, they've been unwritten from history.

Even if people did choose to pretend the invasion didn't happen (an absurdity), there'd still be plenty of film and photographic evidence to remind everyone.

I'm starting to think it's not just the Daleks that are gone. The Racnoss Queen, Donna, the bus in Planet of the Dead, the people who resurrected the Master, and that guy who wanted to use the Immortality Gate to make his daughter immortal are probably gone forever as well. So, in effect, as far as everyone but the Doctor is concerned, none of the events of Series 4 or the Specials ever happened.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I have heard that the forthcoming Torchwood: Miracle Day is set on an Earth were no one remembers any of the past alien invasions. Add to that what's said in SJA "The Vault of Secrets", and....well, they've been unwritten from history.

Even if people did choose to pretend the invasion didn't happen (an absurdity), there'd still be plenty of film and photographic evidence to remind everyone.

I'm starting to think it's not just the Daleks that are gone. The Racnoss Queen, Donna, the bus in Planet of the Dead, the people who resurrected the Master, and that guy who wanted to use the Immortality Gate to make his daughter immortal are probably gone forever as well. So, in effect, as far as everyone but the Doctor is concerned, none of the events of Series 4 or the Specials ever happened.

Why stop there? Maybe NONE of the events of Doctor Who EVER happened because of the Time Crack?

 

[EJA]

Well we know some of it must still have happened, otherwise people like Sarah Jane Smith and Jack Harkness wouldn't be the same, would they?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Well we know some of it must still have happened, otherwise people like Sarah Jane Smith and Jack Harkness wouldn't be the same, would they?

I don't know, why wouldn't they? Why are you choosing season 4 to never have happened? Why not half? Why all? Why not 3 and 4?

 

[EJA]

Well we know some of it must still have happened, otherwise people like Sarah Jane Smith and Jack Harkness wouldn't be the same, would they?

I don't know, why wouldn't they? Why are you choosing season 4 to never have happened? Why not half? Why all? Why not 3 and 4?

I can't get rid of everything that ever happened. It would be like having a middle and an end with no beginning. It wouldn't make sense, and would collapse under its own absurdity.

 

[Admiral_Young]

We're back on this again. I remember that in Torchwood:Children of Earth the character Repesh tells Jack that half the planet either accepts the Dalek invasion and the other rejects it.

If you aren't looking to remove bits of pieces, then why bother attempting to reconcile the parts that you don't like? I think that might be Zoom's point.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Well we know some of it must still have happened, otherwise people like Sarah Jane Smith and Jack Harkness wouldn't be the same, would they?

I don't know, why wouldn't they? Why are you choosing season 4 to never have happened? Why not half? Why all? Why not 3 and 4?

I can't get rid of everything that ever happened. It would be like having a middle and an end with no beginning. It wouldn't make sense, and would collapse under its own absurdity.

It doesn't make any more sense for you to just choose Series 4 either. Has to be some reasoning on your part. I'm just asking what it is. Unless you have a good reason, then it's as equally as valid as my suggestion that none of it has happened.

Why the cut off point?

If you aren't looking to remove bits of pieces, then why bother attempting to reconcile the parts that you don't like? I think that might be Zoom's point.

*smiles*

Ultimately, trying to reconcile something that is unreconcilable is insane.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ That is what we've been all telling him. It's not gotten through yet.

 

[Professor Zoom]

^ That is what we've been all telling him. It's not gotten through yet.

I know. I just want to hear his reasoning of only season 4 not happening, but everything else did. It seems just as likely as my nothing happened.

 

[Australis]

I can't get rid of everything that ever happened.

But you'd like to, wouldn't you?

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ I think he'd like to get rid of everything he doesn't like. He seems to like some things.

 

[DWF]

Steven Moffat has said this recently about this subject.

“If the Doctor is dealing with life forms that he’s defeated on multiple occasions, it’s not like they haven’t noticed. It’s not like they haven’t written it down. You are going to be able to stand up at Stonehenge and say ‘Who’s first? Look at the score sheet, and take your best shot.’ It’s going to happen. At the same time, he can’t keep doing that. It could be quite damaging for the show. So it’s something that I’m bring to a head, and kind of ending.”

 

[EJA]

I don't really want anything from the first four seasons of NuWho to be erased. I'd rather it all stayed as it was. But I just keep encountering these hints that things are not as they were, so I feel compelled to accept them, as much as it pains me to do so.

 

[Australis]

<sigh>

Look at it this way, a modification of something Terry Pratchett said.

You can look at something and respond in one of two way.

The self-centred way:
"I don't get it, what's wrong with them?"

Or the open way:
"I don't get it, what's wrong with me?"

Which way is more fun do you think. Something's been done in a so-and-so way, you have to wrap your brain around it. It really is fun, trying to rationalise it to your personal satisfaction.

 

[EJA]

Obviously, some of the stuff from the Classic Series and the first four seasons of the new show must still have happened, in order for characters such as Sarah Jane and Jack Harkness to still be the people they were when we first met them. But people simply would never choose to just ignore something like the Daleks devastating Earth. They couldn't, even if they wanted to. All that devastation and loss would still be there. It would be like people pretending Adolf Hitler and the Nazis never existed, even though it's an inescapable historical fact with repurcussions up to this very day. If massive spaceships flew out of the sky along with thousands upon thousands of hostile aliens, no one in the entire world would be able to deny the existence of alien life. So that's why I reckon that the invasion is still erased, in order for modern era characters in NuWho to have the attitudes they do, but it's still stupid and lazy, because it fails to consider the effect that such an erasure would have on the individuals who were profoundly effected by such major events, e.g. Donna, Wilf, Martha, Mickey, etc, etc.