Spoilers Thunderbolts* grade and discussion thread

[JD]

Yeah, if it was me I would have waited until the DVD release, that would give everyone plenty of time to see it, and by then most of the spoilers would have spread everywhere.

 

[Saul]

It's a pretty fast title change. But there's a lot of money in a name like Avengers.

BTW. Not sure if it was mentioned but the after credits scene was shot by the Russo Brothers 4 weeks ago and differs from the original which would have had Sam trying to recruit Bucky to the real Avergers.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Nice to see Disney reusing the "Benedict Cumberbatch isn't playing Khan" marketing gimmick.

 

[Anwar]

Nice to see Disney reusing the "Benedict Cumberbatch isn't playing Khan" marketing gimmick.

Or the "Tobey and Andrew definitely aren't in No Way Home" schtick

 

[The Nth Doctor]

BTW. Not sure if it was mentioned but the after credits scene was shot by the Russo Brothers 4 weeks ago and differs from the original which would have had Sam trying to recruit Bucky to the real Avergers.

Yeah, it came up a page or two ago.

Speaking of which, for a long time, I had wondered how Sam's absence here (at least on the Bucky side of things) would work. There isn't any need for Sam (and not just because he isn't a broken merc with loads of trauma) and ultimately his absence allows Bucky to have his own group of compatriots, which is a nice set-up for potential conflict between the two of them as we saw in the post-credits scene (albeit without Sam present). I'm curious to see that dynamic played out in the next two Avenger films.

 

[Saul]

What's the timeline on this? I was a bit confused because Yelena and Red Guardian said it was a year since they last saw each other but they aren't talking about the 'Black Widow' movie right? It just feels like something weighty happened when they last met.

 

[Kor]

What's the timeline on this? I was a bit confused because Yelena and Red Guardian said it was a year since they last saw each other but they aren't talking about the 'Black Widow' movie right? It just feels like something weighty happened when they last met.

2027 for this one according to a few sites out there including a Marvel wiki, and I believe the final scene of Black Widow took place in 2024.

Kor

 

[The Nth Doctor]

2027 for this one according to a few sites out there including a Marvel wiki, and I believe the final scene of Black Widow took place in 2024.

Kor

That wouldn't work since Black Widow took place pre-Blip. It has to be at least five years.

Either way, their estrangement had to have happened well after Black Widow.

 

[Booji]

That wouldn't work since Black Widow took place pre-Blip. It has to be at least five years.

Either way, their estrangement had to have happened well after Black Widow.

Kor might mean the post credits scene which was after the blip

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Oh, right. Duh.

 

[tomalak301]

Do the Events of Hawkeye take place before or after the end credits scene of Black Widow? I've been watching clips of Hawkeye lately (Seeing Thunderbolts and seeing the news about Jeremy Renner) and watched the fight scene between Yelena and Burton again. Seems like that would have a big impact on Yelena and maybe even her relationship with Red Guardian. It's been so long since I've seen this stuff though.

 

[Anwar]

Do the Events of Hawkeye take place before or after the end credits scene of Black Widow? I've been watching clips of Hawkeye lately (Seeing Thunderbolts and seeing the news about Jeremy Renner) and watched the fight scene between Yelena and Burton again. Seems like that would have a big impact on Yelena and maybe even her relationship with Red Guardian. It's been so long since I've seen this stuff though.

Hawkeye is after Black Widow, Black Widow ends with Yelena being hired to kill Clint.

Kate's mom went to Kingpin to ask for Clint to be "dealt with", he went to Valentina and Valentina sent Yelena to test how effective she'd be at fighting a Pro Avenger.

 

[Mage]

Just saw it, it's bloody brilliant. The core of the movie, the idea of having lost yourself, is something that hit home hard. The cast did great, the action was amazing, I loved Bob. It made me feel. And that's something for me.

 

[Caretaker]

Until the photos from the premiere, I didn't realize Wendell Pierce was in this film. So he gets to appear in two comic book films this year.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

There isn't any need for Sam (and not just because he isn't a broken merc with loads of trauma) and ultimately his absence allows Bucky to have his own group of compatriots, which is a nice set-up for potential conflict between the two of them as we saw in the post-credits scene (albeit without Sam present).

A couple of reasons I would not want to see that:

1. Sam---being Captain America and a legitimate Avenger--should not be questioned about which team is the real one by Bucky, of all people. Barnes knows Valentina has no claim to the concept--and who would willingly accept her in any position of authority or her concoction as official? Moreover, Yelena can say the team "owns" Valentina, but they were mere words to a master manipulator of Valentina's caliber. Further, from a public (in-universe) perspective, it would be telling if no surviving heroes known to have a direct membership in the real Avengers (which leaves Bucky out) is not recruited or shows any interest in her team of ex-killers.

2. After the great build-up of the Wilson / Barnes friendship in the D+ series, having the two come to some conflict of any significance over the Avengers (with Barnes siding with Valentina to any degree) seems all too close to being a Civil War-esque situation, which the MCU can do without.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Until the photos from the premiere, I didn't realize Wendell Pierce was in this film. So he gets to appear in two comic book films this year.

I guess you missed the third trailer (understandable). That's where I first learned he was going to be in it.

I didn't know his The Wire co-star, Chris Bauer, was also going to be in it until I stumbled upon his name in the film's Wikipedia article. Pity he only had one scene.