The DTI novels mention that Future Guy May have played a part in the Eugenics Wars and so it’ll be a good reason to bring him back.
Throwaway lines that hint at untold stories
- Thread starter Laura Cynthia Chambers
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I’m sure Space Show Discovery will tackle that.
I have that novel, and I thought the same thing at that time. Sort of making the novels pseudo-canon by doing this.
This was also well before the idea of direct conflict and schism between the logical Vulcan society that stayed on Vulcan and the militaristic faction that left the planet and settled on Romulus.
"Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period. Savage, even by Earth standards. And if Romulans retain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show."
To me, that always sounded more like the Romulans were some long-lost military expedition/colony that had lost contact with the Vulcan homeworld way back in the hoary mists of time, and never got the memo that Vulcans had decided to be peaceful and unemotional in the meantime (or ignored the memo).
Kor
And we still sort of lack confirmation that Romulans "left" Vulcan. The idea that they were already interstellar and just severed ties with their ancestral home in disgust around Surak's time works just as well as the idea of a grand exodus launched around Surak's time.
The raptor flag was a thing before and during Surak's life. Furthermore, the name Romulans was quite familiar to T'Pol in Archer's time, suggesting either contact after the great schism, or then a group that always was named Romulans even before they severed ties with the rest of the Vulcan society.
Even this doesn't narrow down things much. All the throwaway lines put together would still amount to lots of freedom in writing the definite version of the Romulan saga.
...And that the skies could be full of such lost colonies/expeditions, what with Vulcanoids not believing much in cooperation and communication. The Romulans might have absorbed some of the colonies, and some might have been lost to the inevitable infighting. In compensation, though, we now know the Romulans spawned the Debrune at least, again no doubt because Vulcanoids just don't like to stick together, and because interstellar diaspora would sound very appealing to Romulans who had already tried it firsthand.
A fractured and factionated Vulcandom sounds appealing in many ways. It would be in their nature, certainly. Interstellar intrigue is inherent in the very origins of the culture, as per "Return to Tomorrow". And one might sidestep the Vulcans-never-conquered vs. Vulcans-conquered-for-lack-of-alcohol contradiction by saying that Vulcan was conquered by Vulcans... With Spock's father's folks on the losing side and some other Vulcans as the winners.
Timo Saloniemi
That's a very good answer. Maybe that might be combined with McCoy thinking that Vulcan was culturally "conquered" by Earth culture. And another possibility is that the hypothetical ancient Vulcan space empire was conquered in some space war thousands of years ago.
What really bothers me is Spock talking like the idea of a bunch of Vulcans - about 400 - all being killed all together at the same time is so unprecedented that it is considered to somehow be equal to the Vulcan state being conquered by another state.
How can the simultaneous deaths of 400 Vulcans be so unprecedented? If 400 Vulcans die in an average Earth minute then 24,000 Vulcans die in an average Earth hour and 576,000 Vulcans die in an average Earth day, and 210,384,000 Vulcans die in an average Earth year, and 21,038,400,000 Vulcans would die in an average Earth Century. If the average Vulcan died age 250 Earth years, then the total Vulcan population would be 52,596,000,000. Star Trek (2009) says the total Vulcan population is 10,000,000,000.
If the total Vulcan population is 10,000,000,000, and the average Vulcan dies age 250 Earth years, then 40,000,000 Vulcans die in the average Earth year, and 109,514.03 Vulcans die in the average Earth day, and 4,563.0845 Vulcans die in the average Earth hour, and 76.0514 Vulcans die in the average Earth minute, and 1.2675 Vulcans die in the average Earth second.
So if exactly 400 Vulcans died in one earth second, Vulcans would be dying 315.5818 times as fast as normal for that one second. And if exactly 400 Vulcans died in one Earth minute, Vulcans would be dying 5.2596 times as fast as normal for that one minute. And if the exactly 400 Vulcans spread out their dying over a full Earth hour, they would be dying 0.08766 times as vast as the average rate of Vulcan dying. So it is certainly conceivable that random fluctuations in the rate that Vulcans die would make 400 Vulcans dying in one minute or even in one second be something that has happened before and is recorded the collective Vulcan memory.
There have been a lot of natural disasters in merely the 21st century on Earth in which a lot more than 400 people died in an hour, a minute, or a second. They include 70,000 killed in 2003 European Heat Wave, 87,587 killed in 2008 Sichuan Earthquake, 100,000 killed in the 2005 Kashmir Earthquake, 138,66 killed in Cyclone Nargis in Myamar in 2008, 160,000 dead in the 2010 Haitian Earthquake, and 280,000 dead in the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami.
Among deadly accidents in the 21st century were the sinkings of Dong Fang Zhi Xing, 2015, 442 dead; Salahuddin-2, 2002, 450 dead; Senopatri Nusantara, 2006, 461 dead; Princess of the Stars, 2008, 832 dead; al-Salam Boccaccio 98, 2006, 1,012 dead; Spice Island I, 2011, 1,573 dead; and Le Joola, 2002, 1,863 dead.
So Vulcan science and technology and approach to risk management must be far more advanced than that of 21st century Earth if there haven't been many natural disasters and accidents within Vulcan memory in which over 400 Vulcans were killed at one time. And if the Intrepid was the very first time in centuries or possibly millennia of Vulcan space exploration within Vulcan memory that an entire crew of 400 were killed, then Vulcan exploration procedures would seem to be in many ways superior to those of humans. And of course Enterprise certainly indicated there were many times when Andorian space crews attempted to explode Vulcan space ships.
And I fail to see how hundreds of Vulcans being killed would seem unimaginable to Vulcans because Vulcan has never been conquered. That seems like a non sequitur.
And I always wondered why McCoy thought that sobriety would explain a planet being conquered. Maybe McCoy thought that sober people would never be reckless enough to fight back against invaders.
So a perfect explanation of the odd aspects of McCoy's and Spock's statements would be very desirable.
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Except that to me it seems perfectly obvious that the Eugenics wars, which Spock said was Earth''s last world war, must be the same as the Third World War of about 2053 from First Contact, since there could hardly be another world war after First Contact. Therefore the same conflict must be dated to the 1990s in one Earth calendar in '"Space Seed" and to the 2050s in another Earth calendar in First Contact.
How often do 400 Vulcans die in one second in the same location?
And without the opportunity to download. It was a sudden disturbance in the Katra Force.
I can't recall exactly how the lines go but in "Where No Man Has Gone Before". Isn't there something about Mitchell saying to Kirk,"That little blond lab tech. I set you up with". Kirk says he almost married her. I've read some fans saying maybe it was Carol Marcus.
The dialogue implies that he's just starting to drink, if anything. And DeForest Kelley certainly didn't act inebriated in the scene.
It seems likely that McCoy's just come off shift, and is treating himself to a celebratory drink after a busy week.
Here's the dialogue:
Star Trek Script Search, it's a wonderful thing.
Yes. I know. And I know the lines, too. I thought the crude thumbnail of Norm and Cliff in sickbay indicated the lack of seriousness.
The thumbnail was so small and blurry that I didn't notice them.
You and I remember Budapest very differently.
....what? Someone had to say it!
Alternative universe, but Yesterday's Enterprise is particularly good at using this technique to flesh out its offscreen crapsack universe in broad strokes. Not to mention the whole backstory of the Enterprise C's encounter at Narendra III, never actually depicted on screen but in only a few scattered lines of dialogue it feels tangibly real.
Fun fact, the Prison Ship in NuBSG was named after this ship.
April was the first Captain of the TOS Enterprise, not of every Enterprise.
What other Enterprise is there other than TOS? 
JB
JB
What other Enterprise is there other than TOS?
JB
There's the ringship.
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