I'm assuming Georgiou should have been executed for not complying with moral behavior not a part of her society ?
Thoughts on the Empress?
- Thread starter Odo
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You know, not everything is all or nothing? They could have simply allowed her to quietly live out her life as a civilian instead of jumping in bed with her.
Georgiou is one of those characters I hate on TV who looked like they were supposed to only have a bit part but we're suddenly granted new life and plot armour for fan service and don't really make any sense. Bron from GOT springs to mindAnd, of course, Michael Burnham, who is supposed to be the paragon of Federation virtue. She gave a speech and everything.
Section 31 obviously wasn't going to. Burnham made a poor choice and now must live with the consequences.
Nowhere is that saying Georgiou is good or to be regarded as a heroine.
This version seems controlled by Starfleet. So they are the ones jumping in bed with her, and I can’t imagine the Federation didn’t get a say.
I can.
Still doesn't make her some how commendable. The Federation and Starfleet have worked with morally wrong individuals before. The Klingons were guilty of egregious behaviors. It's not all or nothing.
She reminds me of Dr. Smith on the old Lost in Space — camp baddie who ends up a one-dimensional regular played for laughs.
I haven't laughed with Georgiou so if thats the goal it failed monumentally so.
The DS9 episode "Inter Enim Silent Leges" clearly shows that Section 31 was always controlled by Starfleet or working in conjunction with them.
^^^^
And yes I know that upsets people who feel Picard was how proper Starfleet officers always behaved (Even though you have captains like Edward jellico); but it's very clear from Admiral Ross's dialogue, and the fact he knew Sloan had survived, and also knew the Romulan who they tricked Bashir into believing was the target of an assassination was actually a Section 31 double agent; that Section 31 has always been a part of Starfleet and Starfleet intelligence; but they had a Section 31 agent's claim that it's an autonomous agency, it's just a cover story so that if they're caught Starfleet and the Federation can feign total ignorance of any Section 31 operation.
Hell in that very same episode, the Romulan double agent even reinforces that belief to the tribunal who are passing judgment on the Romulan who assisted Bashir.
Lots to mull over! I guess ultimately I thought she'd be a great foil for Michael, and hope she continues to be that. My preference would be for Philippia's goals to eventually clash with Michael's, putting them at odds, because I think they'd play well off one another as conflicted adversaries. But at the very least, I hope they continue to show that she has a very different set of priorities/outlook than the crew. Time will tell where the creators take us.
And yeah, Yeoh plays her very differently than regular Georgiou or the other characters from the main universe - very much in line with the camp portrayal of the mirror universe DS9 started.
And yeah, Yeoh plays her very differently than regular Georgiou or the other characters from the main universe - very much in line with the camp portrayal of the mirror universe DS9 started.
An interesting question: Who is worse - the leader of a brutal empire, who gives the orders and oversees all the genocide that's happening in their name, or the individuals who actually do the hands-on killing and torturing? Moset did his unethical experiments because the times allowed it and supported it, so the leaders are to blame. But he was the one actually doing harm. So is Emperor Georgiou not as bad as Moset? We can assume she had to kill a lot of people to get and keep her position, though most of that could also have been done through intermediaries.
Whenever i see Saru, i think that he taste like fish for some reason.
I think some of you need to separate the first two seasons of DSC from what it's going to be from the third season on. And just move passed the way things were before and accept what it's going to be now. Or you'll be in for a looooong next several years. Since apparently "just stop watching" doesn't seem to be an option many of you will consider.
The first season was three years and two showrunners ago. Whatever they had going on back then, whatever they said back in the first season, it's time to let it go. The writers have no intention of continuing in that direction.
At the end of the day, we're going to be spending more time with the way the show is now than how it was in the first (and second) season. I love the first season more than most people here, but whatever direction they were going in back then, they're not going in now. So it's time to just forget it. The first two seasons were a rough draft of Discovery. From the third season on, it's going to be the "proper" version that most people will associate with the series from here on out. If that sounds a lot like how it went with TNG, that's because it is.
The behind-the-scenes and creative development of TNG and DSC are more similar than I ever would've thought. Bryan Fuller is Gene Roddenberry. Aaron Harbets and Gretchen Berg are Maurice Hurley. Alex Kurtzman is Rick Berman. Michelle Paradise is Michael Piller. We mainly associate the TNG characters, and TNG itself, with Piller's take. We'll probably end up associating the DSC characters with Paradise's take.
The Klingons aren't part of the Federation, the Ferengi don't eat their associates, there's no Morgana Quadrant. Despite what the first two seasons of TNG said.
Anything from the first season with Georgiou, they'll either retcon, never mention again, change the context of, or show how she changed. They'll probably push her in more of a Xena direction. By the end of her time on DSC, she'll be more of a fren in "frenemy" than enemy. Guaranteed, that's the direction they're going to go in.
And it's not just Georgiou who they're changing. It's Burnham too. She's not the Human-raised-as-Vulcan anymore. She's pretty much just Human. In-story, they'll explain it as Book rubbing off on her and being in a different place in life (and not just because of time displacement).
They've dropped certain angles that didn't work before to focus on what does work. And they can do that. Because these characters are fiction. I know it's amazing but there we are. They're fiction. Who they are and what they've done isn't real.
To quote William Shatner, "It's just a TV show!"
The first season was three years and two showrunners ago. Whatever they had going on back then, whatever they said back in the first season, it's time to let it go. The writers have no intention of continuing in that direction.
At the end of the day, we're going to be spending more time with the way the show is now than how it was in the first (and second) season. I love the first season more than most people here, but whatever direction they were going in back then, they're not going in now. So it's time to just forget it. The first two seasons were a rough draft of Discovery. From the third season on, it's going to be the "proper" version that most people will associate with the series from here on out. If that sounds a lot like how it went with TNG, that's because it is.
The behind-the-scenes and creative development of TNG and DSC are more similar than I ever would've thought. Bryan Fuller is Gene Roddenberry. Aaron Harbets and Gretchen Berg are Maurice Hurley. Alex Kurtzman is Rick Berman. Michelle Paradise is Michael Piller. We mainly associate the TNG characters, and TNG itself, with Piller's take. We'll probably end up associating the DSC characters with Paradise's take.
The Klingons aren't part of the Federation, the Ferengi don't eat their associates, there's no Morgana Quadrant. Despite what the first two seasons of TNG said.
Anything from the first season with Georgiou, they'll either retcon, never mention again, change the context of, or show how she changed. They'll probably push her in more of a Xena direction. By the end of her time on DSC, she'll be more of a fren in "frenemy" than enemy. Guaranteed, that's the direction they're going to go in.
And it's not just Georgiou who they're changing. It's Burnham too. She's not the Human-raised-as-Vulcan anymore. She's pretty much just Human. In-story, they'll explain it as Book rubbing off on her and being in a different place in life (and not just because of time displacement).
They've dropped certain angles that didn't work before to focus on what does work. And they can do that. Because these characters are fiction. I know it's amazing but there we are. They're fiction. Who they are and what they've done isn't real.
To quote William Shatner, "It's just a TV show!"
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Chicken, not fish, chicken.Whenever i see Saru, i think that he taste like fish for some reason.
Isn’t the point of a serialized show specifically that it doesn’t forget/ignore what happened before? That they would sweep all that stuff under the rug is an argument that it’s not a very successful serialized show, IMO.
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"Last time I saw something like that it was served on a platter." XDWhenever i see Saru, i think that he taste like fish for some reason.
I didn't think camp unique to the Terran Empire as seen in Mirror, Mirror, thinking chiefly of Leonard Nimoy's and Barbara Luna's performances, but yeah, Mirror Kirk and Mirror Sulu camped it up. Both Shatner and Takei had a tendency to do that when not portraying their usual Kirk or Sulu (Janice Kirk in Turnabout Intruder, swashbuckling Sulu in Naked Time).
I think it depends on how it is done. But, jumping in to a whole new time period is definitely moving to leave some things behind.
And, if the show isn't successful, I do tend towards Lord Garth's suggestion and not watch it. Why waste time on something less that successful?
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