Thoughts on the Empress?

[Lord Garth]

You don't understand that you can send the wrong type of message with that attitude?

So if I like a show about gangsters -- for instance -- does that mean I want to be a gangster?

I think there might be a disconnect here. I'm of the generation that played Mortal Kombat in high school. The generation immediately after mine plays Grand Theft Auto. I separate fiction from real life.

 

[BillJ]

So if I like a show about gangsters -- for instance -- does that mean I want to be a gangster?

No. But a show about gangsters settling down and being the good guys after shooting dozens of people would be in bad taste and give people the wrong impression about what is right and wrong.

Full disclaimer: I watched Bonnie and Clyde the other night and thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

[Lord Garth]

Full disclaimer: I watched Bonnie and Clyde the other night and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Shifting gears. Bonnie & Clyde is one of my favorite movies.

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I think the OP got more than he bargained for with us. He sure knows our thoughts now.

 

[BillJ]

Just for shits and giggles...

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[Jadeb]

So if I like a show about gangsters -- for instance -- does that mean I want to be a gangster?

I think there might be a disconnect here. I'm of the generation that played Mortal Kombat in high school. The generation immediately after mine plays Grand Theft Auto. I separate fiction from real life.

Do you think the growth of diversity and inclusion in pop culture has made younger people more welcoming to diversity and inclusion? I certainly do.

 

[Lord Garth]

Do you think the growth of diversity and inclusion in pop culture has made younger people more welcoming to diversity and inclusion? I certainly do.

Yes and no, but more yes. In general. There are a lot more female and minority heroes and role-models than there used to be. Unfortunately, I also think it's become politicized in the past decade and especially during the last five years.

I think there's more tolerance, but there's also more gray. Prior to around the turn of the millennium, you never would've seen shows about someone like Tony Soprano. At least not as the main lead.

In Star Trek itself, you wouldn't have had Burnham be the main character. It could be a black (Sisko) or a woman (Janeway), but it never would've been both. Not as the lead. Stamets and Culber would not have existed in Old Trek. And we definitely wouldn't be having a discussion about Georgiou. We also wouldn't have had an all-female landing party like we saw in "Project Daedalus", and we also wouldn't have had an episode like "That Hope Is You" with no white people at all (except aliens who were painted different colors).

In the superhero genre, they never would've made a live-action movie about Wonder Woman in the '70s, '80s, or '90s like they did with Batman and Superman.

So I'd say it's gotten more better than it has worse. On balance. Still a long way to go. The extremist and hate groups have become more extreme, more hateful, and more prolific. Division is more visible.

I think we're made more aware of horrible things are now than we used to be, and at least there's more willingness to have those discussions. In real life: We're seeing police brutality, it's being talked about more. In fiction: We're seeing debates about characters doing horrible things that a show is on the side of.

 

[NCC-73515]

It's not just her actions as Emperor, but also her over the top snarky, bitching, ugly lines and attitude. In almost every scene, she just annoys me. Dukat was charismatic and interesting.

 

[fireproof78]

I think she is supposed to be annoying. Burnham saving her is supposed to be a mistake..

 

[Noname Given]

It's not just her actions as Emperor, but also her over the top snarky, bitching, ugly lines and attitude. In almost every scene, she just annoys me. Dukat was charismatic and interesting.

See I feel the opposite. I love the way Michelle Yeoh plays empress Georgiou.

Mark Alimo as Dukat just came across as a deluded narcissist, Who may have been somewhat competent as an occupying governor on occasion; but for me he always came across his two full of himself, and an egomaniac. He was also often easily duped, and that was because he considered himself more intelligent than everyone around him, but he isn't and that's why everybody gets the better of him.

Empress Georgiou is arrogant, yes, but she really isn't a narcissist, nor does she underestimate her enemies. She's willing to do whatever it takes to achieve her goal, even if that means looking like a fool in front of others; or setting aside her ego.
^^^
That's something Gul Dukat as written just couldn't/wouldn't do.

 

[The Wormhole]

Oh, lookey. A thread complaining about the Disco crew being chill with having Cannibalistic Space Hitler in their midst. What a refreshing new topic which totally hasn't already been done a dozen times already.

Meh, I find Georgiou a funny and entertaining character. Whether or not she's evil incarnate or dined on Saru is not relevant to me at all.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Has the Empress shown compassion or remorse or empathy since she came back with Burnham?

No. Not even close.

 

[Nyotarules]

Rewatching Season 2 the empress comes across like a cartoon baddie, but I like how Yeoh plays the part, she looks like she is having fun.

 

[Blue Squadron]

I have a sneaking suspicion that it’s not even as nuanced as some of you might believe regarding mirror Georgiou...

The producers and writers obviously like the character (which seems to be largely why they brought her back) and they basically seem willing to simply forget who and what she was before Burnham dragged her to the prime universe. A lot of the time she’s written and played as simply a more fast-and-loose version of prime Georgiou and maintains a role as Burnham’s mentor.

Yes, they established that there was an existing relationship between the Georgiou and Burnham of the mirror universe as well as the one we were (briefly) introduced to in the prime universe. I get the fact that the psychology of the whole situation might be tricky (for *both* of them) and they find it hard to forget what they *think* they know about the person who looks and sounds just like someone they once knew —— but absolutely *isn’t*...!!

Nevertheless, they (the writers) mostly seem to fall into the trap of having Burnham and Georgiou interact most of the time as if they actually ARE with the person they used to know. There’s a perceived emotional link between the two, probably by both of them, but, deep down, they should both know that the other person is absolutely NOT the person they wish them to be.

Burnham might be clinging to Georgiou as a link to the memory of a mentor and surrogate parent (and one she let down badly, fatally even...!) but her Vulcan-trained logical side should know damn well that her Georgiou is gone and in her place is a vicious genocidal dictator.

It’s just not written (or played) that way and I doubt it ever will be because that’s not who they really want Georgiou to be. It’s like they realised they missed a trick by not keeping the original prime Georgiou around so they want her, for the most part, to be as close to that as possible, except when they can do a bit of fan-boy service by having Michelle Yeoh do badass Michelle Yeoh type things at which point she goes all hardcore but then she goes back to being pseudo-prime Georgiou again afterwards.

I’m probably in a minority here but, much as I like Michelle Yeoh, I actually think Discovery (the show and the ship...) could do perfectly well without her. There are enough other characters and relationships in that crew to be developed and rounded-out without falling back on a guest star who was supposed to have been killed off at the beginning of the first season.

Eeeeek. Controversial... (!)

 

[fireproof78]

, lookey. A thread complaining about the Disco crew being chill with having Cannibalistic Space Hitler in their midst. What a refreshing new topic which totally hasn't already been done a dozen times already.

Some things require further beating until morale improves.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's not just her actions as Emperor, but also her over the top snarky, bitching, ugly lines and attitude. In almost every scene, she just annoys me. Dukat was charismatic and interesting.

Yeoh always seem to be in a different show. Kind of like De Lancie when he show up as Q. No trees are safe!

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Was she not supposed to stay in the 23rd century and start a section 31 show?

 

[TPezz]

Ehhh, she adds a bit of dark humour to the show. Probably my favourite character.

I swear DSC haters will complain about anything.

Mama Burnham knew who she really was, and still thanked her.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Ehhh, she adds a bit of dark humour to the show. Probably my favourite character.

I swear DSC haters will complain about anything.

Mama Burnham knew who she really was, and still thanked her.

I kinda have a problem with all of the kinky/bi = evil stuff that has been done since DS9 went to the MU

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Was she not supposed to stay in the 23rd century and start a section 31 show?

She's in 3188 now, so obviously she'll have to make it back to 2257 somehow. Exactly HOW she'll do this is unknown as of yet.

 

[ananta]

I think Michelle Yeoh is superb, and she’s clearly having enormous fun in the role. She’s an absolute blast. I can understand the controversy, particularly among trek’s gatekeepers, but I like having a wildcard in the cast, an antihero who could just as easily betray you as help you. Her relationship with Burnham is particularly interesting.