Thoughts on Burnham's relationship to Sarek

[Kevin Wolff]

she could easily be a hybrid just like Spock, except her human traits are dominant in her appearance. She might even have some Vulcan strength (which might explain why she could take on that Battlesuit Klingon).

From a writing standpoint it makes sense. A new, plausible take on Vulcans without being bound by the logic monotony. A young action hero with some of the wisdom of an enlightened species. And it's safe to say she won't follow the Pon Far lifestyle.

 

[Captain Indecisive]

Captain Indecisive, I think you're here to argue, not to discuss. I've been following this thread and find you to live up to your name on several levels. I'm not accusing you of being a troll, dual or any other specific infraction but I don't see much constructive in your writing.

Well you are wrong. I wasn't the one arguing, I asked a question and others got on their high horse.

If you truly read through the posts as you say you'd see that { Emilia } was actually "attacked" at one stage and I told that member it was uncalled fo, before she became aggressive with me herself. There was also two moderators who completely misrepresented what I was saying.

 

[Awesome Possum]

She can't be a daughter because her ears aren't pointy like Spock's. Maybe she grew up as a ward or something.

Recessive genes.

 

[Captain Indecisive]

she could easily be a hybrid just like Spock, except her human traits are dominant in her appearance. She might even have some Vulcan strength (which might explain why she could take on that Battlesuit Klingon).

From a writing standpoint it makes sense. A new, plausible take on Vulcans without being bound by the logic monotony. A young action hero with some of the wisdom of an enlightened species. And it's safe to say she won't follow the Pon Far lifestyle.

The lead in a Star Trek TV show is never going to be anything but human. It is about the future of future of humanity. Somebody has already suggested that Fuller's purpose with the the relationship is to show that Burnham grew up in a society that was prejudiced against her, as a way to highlight how people in the real world face prejudice.That seems more inline with what Star Trek does, than the soap opera like theory of love childs or hidden siblings.

Besides, how many live action movies/shows from Hollywood have ever actually focused on an alien or fantasical looking characters without shoving humans into as much as they can? Bay and Speilberg have completely sidelined the robots in Transformers to make it all about Wahlburg & LaBouf. The Muppets have had a live action project just about Muppets. The executives and writers think people need humans to "relate to". Transformers is supposed to be about the machines with humans as supporting characters or cannon fodder. Kids watch the Muppets for the puppets not the people.

As best I can tell Dark Crystal is the time a live movie has be all about the fantastical and weird looking creatures.

 

[Trekkin]

I don't know when to drop it

True.

Recessive genes.

Ah, so that's 'how T'Pau and T'Pring managed to dodge the 'unflattering bowl cut' trait.

 

[Captain Indecisive]

True.

First of all that that is nothing that I posted here and the fact that you would edited another persons post like that shows you to be a very dishonest individual.

Second, actually read the posts and you will see that I'm not the person who brought this topic back up. Two other members have done that, one of them a moderator - I simply responded to their comments.

Or is a person not allowed to respond to comments because you don't agree with them?

My discussion with { Emilia } turned into an argument but at no point did she suggested that I wasn't to speak. Not so sure I like the worldview you have. Not very very Star Trek-y.

 

[T'Bonz]

Do not use profanity to me again or make false claims about what I think or have said.

Uh, I think that you and several others in the thread need to calm things down. If you're getting too hot under the collar over a TV show that hasn't aired yet (this goes for anyone in the thread not just you), log off and go take a walk. Seriously.

People will disagree with your position. Do your best to convince them if you wish, but if they still don't agree, well then stop. At some point, a discussion just goes around in circles. Getting heated about it will not do a damned thing but raise your blood pressure. Just let it go.

As for the profanity, I run this place and I cuss. It's not against the rules, so don't tell people what to do in that regard. If you really can't tolerate it, you're not going to like it here. Trust me on this.

So pretty much, calm down, people.

As for casting? Everyone likes to see someone who looks like them and so variety is a good thing.

Recasting? That depends...and I'm sure everyone has different opinions on that. As much as I like Simon Pegg, he's really not Scotty to me, nor was Cumberbatch Khan (and Khan should have been Asian anyhow or his character ethnicity should have been modified). Nothing to do with those actors, who are quite good, but the characters were established in my mind. Quinto on the other hand did a very good Spock.

 

[Captain Indecisive]

Uh, I think that you and several others in the thread need to calm things down. If you're getting too hot under the collar over a TV show that hasn't aired yet (this goes for anyone in the thread not just you), log off and go take a walk. Seriously.

People will disagree with your position. Do your best to convince them if you wish, but if they still don't agree, well then stop. At some point, a discussion just goes around in circles. Getting heated about it will not do a damned thing but raise your blood pressure. Just let it go.

As for the profanity, I run this place and I cuss. It's not against the rules, so don't tell people what to do in that regard. If you really can't tolerate it, you're not going to like it here. Trust me on this.

So pretty much, calm down, people.

As for casting? Everyone likes to see someone who looks like them and so variety is a good thing.

Recasting? That depends...and I'm sure everyone has different opinions on that. As much as I like Simon Pegg, he's really not Scotty to me, nor was Cumberbatch Khan (and Khan should have been Asian anyhow or his character ethnicity should have been modified). Nothing to do with those actors, who are quite good, but the characters were established in my mind. Quinto on the other hand did a very good Spock.

I was not getting "hot under the collar" - I simply asked { Emilia } not to swear at me again. It isn't an unreasonable request, irrelevant of the rules. She is the person who got angry not I. And we actually settled it hours ago, and it keeps getting dragged back up, and not by those who were involved. I had put it behind me, and as far as I'm aware, so has { Emilia }. Maybe it is better to tell people stop dragging it up since those involved have "calmed down" a long time ago.

And we weren't discussing the show, we were discussing casting diversity/equality in general and not about recasting for the reboot movies.

I actually have the opposite opinion on Pegg and Cumberbatch in these films. I don't like Pegg - hasn't been funny since Big Train and Spaced - but he is good in Star Trek (has managed to get more screen time than Scotty needs though). There was nothing wrong with the ethnicity of Cumberbatch's Khan, the problem was that he wasn't actually Khan - nor was there any point in making him Khan. John Harrison would have been a much better character as a non-superpowered Starfleet agent or as an attempt to replicate the process that created Khan's people. Story could have pretty much the same.

 

[cultcross]

@Captain Indecisive - when T'Bonz has spoken, it's all over. You don't have to have the last word. Please let this go now.

 

[Captain Indecisive]

@Captain Indecisive - when T'Bonz has spoken, it's all over. You don't have to have the last word. Please let this go now.

I was responding to the admin's post by saying I had "let it go". I was not arguing with T'Bonz.

I was also offering my opinions on his/her comments about the reboot movies.

It is all good, and there is no arguments from me.

 

[{ Emilia }]

The lead in a Star Trek TV show is never going to be anything but human. It is about the future of future of humanity. Somebody has already suggested that Fuller's purpose with the the relationship is to show that Burnham grew up in a society that was prejudiced against her, as a way to highlight how people in the real world face prejudice.

That makes sense.
Personally, I just can't believe they'd do yet another half-human/half-vulcan character, especially as a lead. It has a very strong "been there, done that" element to it, if you ask me. We've had Spock (including his related identity struggles), we've had Worf (who was full Klingon but raised by humans), we've had B'Elanna... it's just not something I would like to see yet again, especially not for the lead character.
I'm not really enthusiastic about possibly having to see more "You're not a good Vulcan, you're too human" scenes and I hope the people who run the show felt the same.

Besides, how many live action movies/shows from Hollywood have ever actually focused on an alien or fantasical looking characters without shoving humans into as much as they can?

This is probably true, if a bit sad. I think the bunch of nerds here (including me) would even watch a Trek show that doesn't feature any humans and takes place completely within the Romulan empire, but the general Netflix-paying public? Probably not so much.

 

[cultcross]

I'd also say that there is something grounding in a human lead, or at least a human looking lead who the audience can identify with. Although science fiction shows certainly could engage with human issues through the medium of aliens interacting with each other, i feel there is something more poignant and meaningful about a human perspective being overtly presented. It reminds me of the old cliché that the best science fiction is actually about the time in which it is written, and the perspective of Us, the 21st century audience, is normally invested in the lead.

 

[Trekkin]

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TLDR: Literally present it through human eyes, and we're usually set.

 

[Jarvisimo]

Yes I'd hope just to have a full Vulcan who is a bit different, like David Mack's T'Prynn in Star Trek: Vanguard. But I'm excited by tv potentially finally embracing intercultural identity away from Earth as part of the Federation - that not all humans are from Earth, some will be born or raised in other Federation planets and be 'third culture' or similar. I think that's a very interesting idea, which to an extent, @Christopher and @David Mack and several other authors have done in CBS-licenced Treklit (Tuvok's son Elieth living on Deneva with a Betazoid wife, the mixed Donobulan families in Christopher Bennett's Rise of the Federation series, etc) .

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Yes I'd hope just to have a full Vulcan who is a bit different, like David Mack's T'Prynn in Star Trek: Vanguard. But I'm excited by tv potentially finally embracing intercultural identity away from Earth as part of the Federation - that not all humans are from Earth, some will be born or raised in other Federation planets and be 'third culture' or similar. I think that's a very interesting idea, which to an extent, @Christopher and @David Mack and several other authors have done in CBS-licenced Treklit (Tuvok's son Elieth living on Deneva with a Betazoid wife, the mixed Donobulan families in Christopher Bennett's Rise of the Federation series, etc) .

Also the AotF version of Chirurgeon Ghee P'Trell, who was educated (and may have grown up on) Andoria but is actually Caitian. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ghee_P'Trell

 

[Jarvisimo]

Yes I'd hope just to have a full Vulcan who is a bit different, like David Mack's T'Prynn in Star Trek: Vanguard. But I'm excited by tv potentially finally embracing intercultural identity away from Earth as part of the Federation - that not all humans are from Earth, some will be born or raised in other Federation planets and be 'third culture' or similar. I think that's a very interesting idea, which to an extent, @Christopher and @David Mack and several other authors have done in CBS-licenced Treklit (Tuvok's son Elieth living on Deneva with a Betazoid wife, the mixed Donobulan families in Christopher Bennett's Rise of the Federation series, etc) .

Also the AotF version of Chirurgeon Ghee P'Trell, who was educated (and may have grown up on) Andoria but is actually Caitian. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ghee_P'Trell

Indeed:

 

[T'Bonz]

I was not getting "hot under the collar" - I simply asked { Emilia } not to swear at me again. It isn't an unreasonable request, irrelevant of the rules. She is the person who got angry not I. And we actually settled it hours ago, and it keeps getting dragged back up, and not by those who were involved. I had put it behind me, and as far as I'm aware, so has { Emilia }. Maybe it is better to tell people stop dragging it up since those involved have "calmed down" a long time ago.

You might want to rethink your attitude here, or your tenure here will end up being short. I don't need nor want new problem children and if you cause more problems than you bring value to the board, I won't hesitate to eject you. If you can't deal with authority, I suggest you leave now before I end up having to remove you. I don't like new posters coming onto my radar for behaviors and this place is going to get crazy busy so tolerances for behaviors will be even less in the forthcoming months.

Not everyone is around when something happens. We are notified of a problem and we see it when we come online which may be hours away from when the event happened. I don't always speak up but I am the person who runs this place and the person who ejects people that I deem troublemakers, trolls or just general pains in the ass. So if I'm in here, it's because I see a problem and want it stopped. I've spoken to the mod about the situation privately, and my goal in speaking to all involved is to have the problem stopped. If I'm posting late, it's because a) I have a life and b) it took time to go over this/talk to those involved. I'm not just speaking to you; I'm speaking to anyone in here who saw what happened and it's perfectly acceptable to come in even a day later to do so because imo it's in the best interests of the board to do so and that's from where I'm coming.

If you have a problem with what a mod tells you to do and feel it's unfair, you PM me or any admin and I'll/we'll have a look. Usually, the mods are fair and if they're not, or if they screw up, they hear from me and any of them will tell you that. You don't start arguing with them and turn things into a mess.

And we weren't discussing the show, we were discussing casting diversity/equality in general and not about recasting for the reboot movies.
I

I don't give a tinker's damn what you were discussing. The topic (however inflammatory it could be) is not important - the behavior was. It needs to stop and not be repeated in future and this is last word on the matter. If you need to discuss it further/have the last word, don't reply here but hit me on PM and we'll discuss it further.

 

[The Wormhole]

I recently had a thought on this matter. If Michael Burnham was indeed raised by Sarek, then he's not really much of a parent, is he? Of the three children he raised, one is a radical who embraced emotions and was exiled from Vulcan society, the other two joined Starfleet against his wishes.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Any rebelliousness exhibited by Spock or Sybok is hardly reflective on Sarek's ability as a parent.

Sarek could, and probably did, do the best he can as a father, and yet if one of his children wants to forge their own path in life - that's on them, not him.

It's not a parent's fault if their child is a rebel.

 

[JRoss]

I recently had a thought on this matter. If Michael Burnham was indeed raised by Sarek, then he's not really much of a parent, is he? Of the three children he raised, one is a radical who embraced emotions and was exiled from Vulcan society, the other two joined Starfleet against his wishes.

Politicians can't be good parents.