Things you HATED about this show. As much as there are positives about STD there is much CRINGE!

[CardassianAssassin]

Also what is the orange guys deal about his species being able to "sense impending death"? He said something about his species being bred for that purpose.

Stupid premise.

Idk man... I can kinda see why having someone with that ability aboard is useful.

My main problem with him, was more how he only mentioned it to apparently humble brag to Burnham: "My race can sense impending death!" Instead of idk... Maybe mention it to the captain?

 

[CardassianAssassin]

It's not just my opinion, it's also the opinion of people who make a career of critiquing actors. They may know a thing or two.

Critics don't know shit. Except for parroting each other, liking the same things that other critics say they should like, and disliking whatever is in vogue among critics to dislike.

Sonequa Martin Green's acting chops have gotten a lot of flack among TWD-fans, and I'm starting to see why.

She came across as wooden and stilted in many scenes of STD, and even when she didn't, I didn't buy her Vulcan heritage at all.

For a character who's supposedly raised among Vulcans, she came off as remarkably non-Vulcan.

 

[Commishsleer]

Leonard Nimoy. Y'know... Spock. The guy who came up with the entire idea in the first place? Leonard Nimoy's entire logical process for the idea was that Spock is an alien, and thus with his biology can do mind melds, neck pinches, etc. Vulcan physiology grants them special powers to make them interesting characters. If anyone can do the neck pinch, it's not a special thing anymore. It's just another piece of fluff butter. Yeah, it's setup in later shows that non-Vulcans can do it. It just always annoyed me, as if the point went right over the heads of those running the show. He's an alien! He can do things we can't. That's the point!

I agree. I don't wan't other races doing neck pinches, mind melds or having pon farr. At least Michael was rubbish at the neck pinch.

Idk man... I can kinda see why having someone with that ability aboard is useful.

My main problem with him, was more how he only mentioned it to apparently humble brag to Burnham: "My race can sense impending death!" Instead of idk... Maybe mention it to the captain?

How useful is that talent really? I mean its wonderfully ominous but unless its more specific its just as useful as Troi's "I can sense deception"

 

[CardassianAssassin]

Mary Sue (which can also be "Marty Stu" in the case of male characters) is a character who is an author self-insert. He/she is essentially the author projecting their wildest fantasies of living in a particular universe onto one character. By that definition, Michael is very much a Mary Sue. The non-stop ego stroking and validation she receives (from Georgiou, Sarek, and Saru) is just one aspect of her Mary Sueishness. There's also the fact that she is the driving force in nearly the entire plot. SHE demands to fire on the Klingons - naturally her life experience is more valuable than her captain's 30 years of command, right? When she doesn't get her way, SHE seizes command of the ship. And of course her point of view turns out to be correct, how could she be wrong? SHE demands to pilot the worker bee. SHE insists on capturing T'Kuvma instead of killing him. The Mary Sue character must be the center of the universe at all times, because again, she is the personification of a writer's fantasy of serving on a Federation starship. Being a lower-ranking officer is boring, so naturally the Mary Sue character is smarter than her superiors and always knows the correct course of action, and other characters yield to her superior judgement.

Idk man... After Star Wars TFA showing us the ultimate Mary Sue in the form of Rey-I can do that too!-Skywalker, no Mary Sue comes close or can even compare...

 

[Shawnster]

Nostalgia sells.

But not too much nostalgia. Because, you know, everything looks different from the ship designs to the uniforms to the technology to the Klingons...

Small universe syndrome, more like it. He's not just any Vulcan, he's SAREK! Who just, coincidentally, reoccurred just enough in TOS/moives/TNG Trek to be semi-important.

Not only that, but the Sarek/Michael backstory is very similar to the Spock/Saavik backstory. TOS Vulcan finds an orphan female survivor. Said Vulcan raises the female orphan as his ward and guides her education.

There was no need to make the connection be Sarek. It adds nothing to the character or the story.

 

[RJG]

Hello All just joined the forum.
As with all Star Trek series, there are things we don't like about the show but given time they may grow on us.
Watched STD last night, things I hated about the show:
Acting was a bit stale.
Senior Officers trying to get one up on one other and arguing.
The Bridge too shiny and not a knob or lever in sight.
Halograms... really!
Design of Klingon ships.
Never saw a round Federation Warp nacelle.
The 'JJ Abrams' lens glare.
Subtitles for Klingon, the audience is intelligent to know they would not be speaking English, reading the subtitles takes you away from looking at the characters.

 

[Albinator]

Mary Sue (which can also be "Marty Stu" in the case of male characters) is a character who is an author self-insert. He/she is essentially the author projecting their wildest fantasies of living in a particular universe onto one character. By that definition, Michael is very much a Mary Sue. The non-stop ego stroking and validation she receives (from Georgiou, Sarek, and Saru) is just one aspect of her Mary Sueishness. There's also the fact that she is the driving force in nearly the entire plot. SHE demands to fire on the Klingons - naturally her life experience is more valuable than her captain's 30 years of command, right? When she doesn't get her way, SHE seizes command of the ship. And of course her point of view turns out to be correct, how could she be wrong? SHE demands to pilot the worker bee. SHE insists on capturing T'Kuvma instead of killing him. The Mary Sue character must be the center of the universe at all times, because again, she is the personification of a writer's fantasy of serving on a Federation starship. Being a lower-ranking officer is boring, so naturally the Mary Sue character is smarter than her superiors and always knows the correct course of action, and other characters yield to her superior judgement. Then, at the end of the episode, she faces the "consequences" of her actions - which consist of losing her friend and captain, whose meaningless death acts as a motivation for Mary Sue to continue her profound quest to Find Herself and discover her individuality. And then she is imprisoned until the start of the next episode when her Superior Intelligence is needed yet again for another mission.

So what you're saying is, she's a lead character. You spent way too much time telling me that.

 

[Mudd]

Mary Sue (which can also be "Marty Stu" in the case of male characters) is a character who is an author self-insert. He/she is essentially the author projecting their wildest fantasies of living in a particular universe onto one character.

Best example of "Marty Stu" in Star Trek: James T. Kirk.

 

[Spider]

If the current writers and producers of Discovery were to bake a cake, it'd be all icing and no cake.

Fantastic special effects, the actual content is lame.

 

[Kemaiku]

Best example of "Marty Stu" in Star Trek: James T. Kirk.

"Gary Stu"

 

[Albinator]

If the current writers and producers of Discovery were to bake a cake, it'd be all icing and no cake.

Fantastic special effects, the actual content is lame.

Someone it sounds like decided to stop thinking, or they didn't watch the episode. Or you don't understand that creative analogy of icing and cake.

If you didn't like it, that's fine, but what you've said makes no sense.

 

[Albinator]

If a show has top notch FX it doesn't automatically mean it doesn't have a story. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. But I feel like Trek fans, pre-2009, were so used to bad FX that when they see good FX in a Trek movie or show, they assume there is no story.

Trek 09 reinforced this-- while it was a decent character driven piece, it's story was by-the-numbers and paper thin. But after that, it seems like obtuse Trekkies are willfully ignoring good stories and messaging simply because they see some top-of-the-line visual effects, and they assume the story must not be there.

Even STID, while not a great movie had a story and message, even if the vehicle they were wrapped in was a rehash of Space Seed/TWOK.

Beyond also had an interesting premise and message, as does Discovery. Discover, unlike the films, isn't even action focused. I was actually pleasantly surprised to see so much character and less action. Certainly the budget is allowing for a big FX scene in each episode, but it's not the "roller coaster thrill ride" I expected. It's not one set piece after another connected by a few bits of dialog, like the movie.

 

[Spider]

Someone it sounds like decided to stop thinking, or they didn't watch the episode. Or you don't understand that creative analogy of icing and cake.

If you didn't like it, that's fine, but what you've said makes no sense.

Having accused Discovery of having great special effects but lame content makes no sense? I thought that was fairly easy to understand.

 

[uniderth]

that everyone on this board is paid by CBS to undermine what they consider to be "true" Star Trek (which, last I checked was Axanar)

Where do I sign up for this? I need some extra cash.

 

[Mudd]

Someone it sounds like decided to stop thinking, or they didn't watch the episode. Or you don't understand that creative analogy of icing and cake.

If you didn't like it, that's fine, but what you've said makes no sense.

It makes a good deal of sense, given that a cake may or may not have icing. A cake is not defined by icing. You can pile all the icing you want on to a pan, and you will not have a cake.

Spider is right - Discovery is all sweet pretty fluff decorating...nothing.

 

[Spot261]

2). Klingons as a metaphor for Trump supporters. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SOVIETS! Stop twisting canon and forcing a square peg into a round hole

Errrrr, since when? Klingons have been pretty much an allegory for a conservative society since, well....feudalism

The Abrams-ization of the TOS technology in a supposed Prime timeline. Where are the analog controls? Why is everything digital all of a sudden. They could have handled this is a cooler way---maybe kept all the knobs and dials but added LED screens, etc. An aesthetic compromise could have been worked out. This tech seems more advanced than Voyager!

Because in the 1960s they had no idea what "digital" would look like, now we do know and it would generate just as many complaints to attempt to showhorn an analogue look in. It's the special effects, they might look good, they might not, it's subjective. I don't watch TOS and get hung up on the rubber suits, I enjoy the stories and this felt like it had potential. Not sure about the lens flare, although I got the sense the "beacon" might have been made so extreme as a tongue in cheek reference to the JJ Abrams complaints....

Also what is the orange guys deal about his species being able to "sense impending death"? He said something about his species being bred for that purpose.

My understanding from that wasn't that they have some sort of psychic sense, but that as an inherently prey species in a binary eco system they have become really good at reading situations and getting a feel for imminent danger. Being hunted and threatened is something they are hyper sensitive to as it is all they have ever known. Might be wrong though...

 

[Albinator]

Having accused Discovery of having great special effects but lame content makes no sense? I thought that was fairly easy to understand.

If you thought the content was lame, that's fine, but having a story you don't like is not what the analogy "all icing and no cake" means.

It makes a good deal of sense, given that a cake may or may not have icing. A cake is not defined by icing. You can pile all the icing you want on to a pan, and you will not have a cake.

Spider is right - Discovery is all sweet pretty fluff decorating...nothing.

Sorry, see above and try again.

 

[Albinator]

Actually, I take that back. Please don't try again. It would be a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Spider]

If you thought the content was lame, that's fine, but having a story you don't like is not what the analogy "all icing and no cake" means.

That's exactly what it means in the context I used it.

Sorry, see above and try again.

OK. How about all hat and no cattle?

Actually, I take that back. Please don't try again. It would be a waste of everyone's time.

Oops. To late.

 

[Noname Given]

Leonard Nimoy. Y'know... Spock. The guy who came up with the entire idea in the first place? Leonard Nimoy's entire logical process for the idea was that Spock is an alien, and thus with his biology can do mind melds, neck pinches, etc. Vulcan physiology grants them special powers to make them interesting characters. If anyone can do the neck pinch, it's not a special thing anymore. It's just another piece of fluff butter. Yeah, it's setup in later shows that non-Vulcans can do it. It just always annoyed me, as if the point went right over the heads of those running the show. He's an alien! He can do things we can't. That's the point.!

On screen Spock has NEVER stated a Human couldn't do a Vulcan neck pnch. In TOS the only exchange regarding it was in TOS - "The Omega Glory":

KIRK: No point in repeating that it's illogical, Spock. I'm quite aware of it.
(The woman is finally within reach of Spock's neck pinch, and down she goes. The male is astonished, and goes to protect her rather than keep fighting.)
KIRK: Pity you can't teach me that.
SPOCK: I have tried, Captain.

So, it may very possible for a human to do it with enough training (And Burnham pretty much grew up on Vulcan and was trained by Sarek). That said, Burnham clearly wasn't that good at it because the Captain was back on her feet in just a few minutes.