Things we only realized later about DS9

[fireproof78]

As was Star Trek Into Darkness (the 9/11 part and the whole terrorism/drone weapon usage part.)

Absolutely. It was one of the few times I remember watching a Trek movie and then hearing the news and feeling the parallels. I remember that with TUC after hearing on the radio the Berlin Wall came down.

Everything we need to create a "1984" surveillance state is in place: drones, cameras, facial recognition, tracking cars and phones, monitoring internet activity, satellites that can spot you from orbit. And given how scared people were when 9/11 (3000 dead) happened, can you imagine their fear if a nuclear or biological attack killed 100 times that many? They would be perfectly happy to invite Big Brother into their lives.

I can well imagine it. We are practically there as it is.

But, more than that, is the absolute mistrust of each other that we have. It was a sad thing to me that front man for Disturbed took a moment and called for unity just at his concert this year. Like, wow, really? People are so fearful of each other, we make enemies out of everyone.

 

[Beard of Sisko]

That Season One is actually tolerable, especially when compared to the first seasons of TNG, Voyager and Enterprise

 

[Oddish]

The shoulder stock on those Bajoran phaser rifles make them about as ergonomic as a brick.

 

[Toril Toran]

****SPOILERS!!!****

I recently re-watched DS9 from start to finish, and the thing I noticed about DS9 is that in the final season we are introduced to Bennie, a black man in the 1930’s (?) that writes stories. One of the last episodes when Sisko is searching for the orb on the desert planet he hears voices on a loudspeaker calling for a doctor.
I think DS9 was actually Bennie having some sort of psychotic break .

 

[Oddish]

I think DS9 was actually Bennie having some sort of psychotic break .

The writers of DS9 actually considered that as the series's ending, but decided against it.

 

[Toril Toran]

The dream, and the dreamer…

 

[Farscape One]

While posting in the 'Most Disliked' games for DS9 thread, it occured to me... there's actually one episode of DS9 that gets worse over the years.

"THE RECKONING"... I hate it with a fiery passion. I used to put as 5th worst of the series. It's now neck and neck with "PROFIT AND LACE". It's one of the only episodes in the franchise that actually gets worse the more times I see it. Almost all of the others either stays the same or gets better.

 

[DonIago]

I was going to defend aspects of "The Reckoning", but after re-reading Jammer's review of the episode...which does defend aspects of it...I'm less inclined to do so, though I hardly think it's among the worst of the series.

 

[Farscape One]

I was going to defend aspects of "The Reckoning", but after re-reading Jammer's review of the episode...which does defend aspects of it...I'm less inclined to do so, though I hardly think it's among the worst of the series.

My reasoning behind why it's so bad is because it's pretty much the only episode of DS9 that damages not only a lead character but one of THE core elements of the series... Sisko as a great father.

Over the previous six years, we see him be such a great dad. And now, he is fine with letting his son probably get killed for the Prophets?! WTF!

And when I find myself actually cheering Kai Winn, of all people, over Ben Sisko for an action she did... there's clearly something wrong here.

"PROFIT AND LACE" is awful, but at least it's ludicrous and is meant to be a comedy. "THE RECKONING" is actually serious about the whole thing.

It was also a copout at the end when Jake just shrugs it off and forgives Ben saying he felt the hatred of the Pah-Wraith. That was too easy. I get that their bond is really strong and you don't want to damage or break that, but Jake should have at least been mad at him... even if it's only for part of another episode. Parents and children have fights all the time, even as adults. And having that fight between them and them making up would have made their bond even stronger because it already was a great bond.

I agree that there are worse stories for an episode in DS9, but doing such damage to Sisko's character is, to me, a far worse thing than a bad story.

 

[Toril Toran]

Speaking of intentionally ridiculous episodes, one of my favourites is The Magnificent Ferengi; or Little Green Men.
Both involving the Ferengi. Ridiculous and silly. But funny.

 

[Farscape One]

Speaking of intentionally ridiculous episodes, one of my favourites is The Magnificent Ferengi; or Little Green Men.
Both involving the Ferengi. Ridiculous and silly. But funny.

Both are ridiculous... but in a good way.

 

[Toril Toran]

“The Reckoning” was an interesting episode but you have to understand that by the that time Sisko was a true believer in the Prophets. So he allowed his son to be used by the Pagh Wraiths hoping that the Prophets would not harm him.

 

[Farscape One]

“The Reckoning” was an interesting episode but you have to understand that by the that time Sisko was a true believer in the Prophets. So he allowed his son to be used by the Pagh Wraiths hoping that the Prophets would not harm him.

Which makes it even worse because it was very clear Jake was being harmed. If Winn didn't actually exercise good judgment, Jake may very well have died.

It's appalling to me that this was a decision Ben was fine with. Especially after Dax came up with the slow increase to allow the Prophet and Pah-Wraith to leave unharmed. Before everything else, he was a father first. It was a huge cornerstone of the series. This episode completely betrays that.

 

[Toril Toran]

I understand your opinion.
Maybe he had Dax’s plan in the back of his mind, and knew, or at least suspected she would enact it before Jake was hurt.
Maybe(?)

 

[Farscape One]

I understand your opinion.
Maybe he had Dax’s plan in the back of his mind, and knew, or at least suspected she would enact it before Jake was hurt.
Maybe(?)

There was no indication of that during the episode. And even if that were true, that still doesn't excuse Ben's willingness to let this happen. No matter how you look at it, this episode betrays everything else that came before regarding Ben as a dad.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. No one is going to convince me that this episode does anything less than what I've already stated.

(Though I do appreciate the mental gymnastics in trying to change my mind. )

 

[Toril Toran]

Look, I agree he wasn’t really a good dad in that episode, but he seemed to be going through a sort of spiritual awakening. Doesn’t excuse his behaviour, though.

 

[DonIago]

I feel as though we can't necessarily understand this episode in the context of our own experiences. Yes, Sisko chooses to place his faith in the Prophets over his son's welfare, but he lives in a world where his faith isn't in a higher power that cannot conclusively be proven to exist, but rather in a higher power that not only demonstrably exists but that he's interacted with on multiple occasions. I'm not saying Sisko was right to make the decision he made either, but we also can't readily compare it to anything that exists in our paradigm.

Memory Alpha has some interesting things to say about it, including that they considered having Sisko be the one to push the button at the end, but that they wanted to demonstrate, for better or worse, just how strong his faith in the Prophets had become.

Unsurprisingly, the writers drew inspiration from the Binding of Isaac (the biblical tale, not the computer game)...as such, there's a few different ways that things can be interpreted. Is Sisko really planning to sacrifice Jake if he never really believes the Prophets would allow harm to come to Jake?

 

[Farscape One]

I feel as though we can't necessarily understand this episode in the context of our own experiences. Yes, Sisko chooses to place his faith in the Prophets over his son's welfare, but he lives in a world where his faith isn't in a higher power that cannot conclusively be proven to exist, but rather in a higher power that not only demonstrably exists but that he's interacted with on multiple occasions. I'm not saying Sisko was right to make the decision he made either, but we also can't readily compare it to anything that exists in our paradigm.

Memory Alpha has some interesting things to say about it, including that they considered having Sisko be the one to push the button at the end, but that they wanted to demonstrate, for better or worse, just how strong his faith in the Prophets had become.

Unsurprisingly, the writers drew inspiration from the Binding of Isaac (the biblical tale, not the computer game)...as such, there's a few different ways that things can be interpreted. Is Sisko really planning to sacrifice Jake if he never really believes the Prophets would allow harm to come to Jake?

That still means Sisko is gambling on those beings to not kill Jake while he's watching his son getting visibly hurt and bleeding.

That would be the real world equivalent of a father just watching his son getting beaten badly by someone and just hoping he doesn't get killed, even though the father had a gun, tazer, or other thing on hand to stop his son from getting harmed further.

In every way, this is just wrong.

 

[kkt]

Which makes it even worse because it was very clear Jake was being harmed. If Winn didn't actually exercise good judgment, Jake may very well have died.

It's appalling to me that this was a decision Ben was fine with. Especially after Dax came up with the slow increase to allow the Prophet and Pah-Wraith to leave unharmed. Before everything else, he was a father first. It was a huge cornerstone of the series. This episode completely betrays that.

I understand your point, but by that point Ben believed that the prophets could see both the past and the future and had, well, faith that they wouldn't do anything that would harm Jake or himself.

 

[DonIago]

That still means Sisko is gambling on those beings to not kill Jake while he's watching his son getting visibly hurt and bleeding.

That would be the real world equivalent of a father just watching his son getting beaten badly by someone and just hoping he doesn't get killed, even though the father had a gun, tazer, or other thing on hand to stop his son from getting harmed further.

In every way, this is just wrong.

Well, we know what Kira Nerys would say about that.