Things to go when Moffat leaves

[Gingerbread Demon]

What I miss is the way Dalek treated them in Season 1, truly unstoppable micro tanks designed to protect the driver, and kill as many as possible. Bullets that we've since seen blow up Daleks just disintegrated in their personal defense shields. The upper portion rotated as the Dalek sat in place to give a truly 360 degree killing range. The suckers projected force fields that could be used as effectively as any hand. Regenerative capabilities.

I understand that brings with it a conundrum, that they are truly scary at that power level, but at the same time it is difficult to write a way to defeat them without coming up with some silly weakness. But I do miss how dangerous those Daleks were. Now we're back to "Oh, them again?" Daleks.

Agree.. If you are going to use Daleks make them more like the ones we had seen in season 1. But I did like the iDaleks. They were cool designs. There was lots more to them than what we saw. The casings were designed to have more moving bits and stuff, and I wish they had shown more of that.

 

[The Wormhole]

Even if it was a hastily thought up retcon, the New Paradigm being the officer class of the Daleks was an interesting idea which I would have liked to have seen explored a bit more in depth, but not meant to be unfortunately.

 

[Christopher]

What I miss is the way Dalek treated them in Season 1, truly unstoppable micro tanks designed to protect the driver, and kill as many as possible...

I understand that brings with it a conundrum, that they are truly scary at that power level, but at the same time it is difficult to write a way to defeat them without coming up with some silly weakness. But I do miss how dangerous those Daleks were. Now we're back to "Oh, them again?" Daleks.

The original series was just as inconsistent in its portrayal of Dalek durability. Many stories showed the Daleks being effectively indestructible, while others showed them being smashed apart fairly easily by human muscle power or the approximate equivalent. The Daleks in "Death to the Daleks" were quite flimsy -- including the infamous case of the Dalek that was so distraught about letting its prisoners escape that it spontaneously exploded out of sheer guilt!

 

[EnderAKH]

The original series was just as inconsistent in its portrayal of Dalek durability. Many stories showed the Daleks being effectively indestructible, while others showed them being smashed apart fairly easily by human muscle power or the approximate equivalent. The Daleks in "Death to the Daleks" were quite flimsy -- including the infamous case of the Dalek that was so distraught about letting its prisoners escape that it spontaneously exploded out of sheer guilt!

My favorite was in Genesis of the Daleks, they were basically a replacement army, then in Destiny of the Daleks, the Doctor tosses his hat on the eyestalk and pushes it down a hallway, after which it explodes due to... embarrassment, I guess?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The original series was just as inconsistent in its portrayal of Dalek durability. Many stories showed the Daleks being effectively indestructible, while others showed them being smashed apart fairly easily by human muscle power or the approximate equivalent. The Daleks in "Death to the Daleks" were quite flimsy -- including the infamous case of the Dalek that was so distraught about letting its prisoners escape that it spontaneously exploded out of sheer guilt!

And let's not forget the TV version of the story the Peter Cushing movies were based on. That had Daleks being pushed down elevator shafts by people. They were not strong.

 

[Mr Awe]

The original series was just as inconsistent in its portrayal of Dalek durability. Many stories showed the Daleks being effectively indestructible, while others showed them being smashed apart fairly easily by human muscle power or the approximate equivalent. The Daleks in "Death to the Daleks" were quite flimsy -- including the infamous case of the Dalek that was so distraught about letting its prisoners escape that it spontaneously exploded out of sheer guilt!

I loved how that story showed that the Daleks carry around a miniature of the TARDIS to use for target practice! A good way to let out those frustrations!

Mr Awe

 

[Christopher]

I loved how that story showed that the Daleks carry around a miniature of the TARDIS to use for target practice! A good way to let out those frustrations!

And it fits with what the modern series has established, about how the Daleks have essentially come to define their entire culture based on their enmity with the Doctor, and how he's effectively the devil in their religion. "Victory of the Daleks" gets criticized for its Dalek redesign, but I loved the idea that, in the Daleks' mind, the one overriding thing that would prove you were a true Dalek was that the Doctor personally declared you his enemy. In a twisted way, they crave his (dis)approval, even worship him, because hate is what they celebrate and live for, and the Doctor's hatred of them is as holy to them as their hatred of every non-Dalek being in the universe.

So it makes sense that their default target would be an image of the Doctor's TARDIS. It's the one image that most embodies "Enemy" in their minds.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

He's made a hole for the Daleks now plot-wise as they are now part time lord.

What I was thinking would have been a cool ending for that episode would be if, after being infused with some regeneration energy, the Dalek casings opened and out walked a bunch of pure-bred, unmutated Kaleds.

Fans sometimes piss me off.

I liked the new designs

I liked some aspects of it. It was mostly the big bulge at the back that I didn't like. It kinda ruined the iconic Dalek silhouette. Also, the bright primary colors were a bit too plastic & fake-y. I preferred the repainting that they did on a couple of them in "Asylum of the Daleks" to be more of a dark apple red.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

What I was thinking would have been a cool ending for that episode would be if, after being infused with some regeneration energy, the Dalek casings opened and out walked a bunch of pure-bred, unmutated Kaleds.

Now that would have been awesome.........Pity. It just would have made for an amazing change to the Daleks. They'd still be Daleks only far more deadly and mobile, and armed with opposable thumbs.

I liked some aspects of it. It was mostly the big bulge at the back that I didn't like. It kinda ruined the iconic Dalek silhouette. Also, the bright primary colors were a bit too plastic & fake-y. I preferred the repainting that they did on a couple of them in "Asylum of the Daleks" to be more of a dark apple red.

Well that bulge at the back concealed weapons .....As I said the casings were designed, supposedly with more moving bits and that bit at the back opened and stuff was supposed to come out of there and around the case.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

It doesn't matter what they were for. They still ruined the silhouette and made the Daleks look a little too fat & chunky.

 

[The Wormhole]

"Victory of the Daleks" gets criticized for its Dalek redesign, but I loved the idea that, in the Daleks' mind, the one overriding thing that would prove you were a true Dalek was that the Doctor personally declared you his enemy. In a twisted way, they crave his (dis)approval, even worship him, because hate is what they celebrate and live for, and the Doctor's hatred of them is as holy to them as their hatred of every non-Dalek being in the universe.

For similar reasons I really enjoy the conversation between the Doctor and the Dalek Prime Minister in Asylum of the Daleks when the PM is talking about the beauty of hatred, and speculating that maybe the reason no Dalek has ever killed the Doctor. I could probably have been very entertained if the entire episode explored that philosophy.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Plus if the Daleks just shot the Doctor on sight the show would pretty much be over. So they never ever do that.

In fact like Bond none of the bad guys just shoot him dead the first chance they get.

 

[Ithekro]

What I was thinking would have been a cool ending for that episode would be if, after being infused with some regeneration energy, the Dalek casings opened and out walked a bunch of pure-bred, unmutated Kaleds.

That would be interesting. Also give an excuse to bring in the other Dalek types who would want to perge the Kaleds in favor of their mutated Dalek forms. The New Paradigm Daleks were suppose to be pure compared to those made from Davros or those recreated by the Emperor using humans.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

That would be interesting. Also give an excuse to bring in the other Dalek types who would want to perge the Kaleds in favor of their mutated Dalek forms. The New Paradigm Daleks were suppose to be pure compared to those made from Davros or those recreated by the Emperor using humans.

It certainly would have been interesting and then you'd have a proper hybrid story like they hinted at. That just seemed to go nowhere as if the writers decided last minute that they'd screwed up.

 

[Christopher]

Plus if the Daleks just shot the Doctor on sight the show would pretty much be over. So they never ever do that.

Except in "The Stolen Earth," when they did exactly that in the cliffhanger. Oh, and in "Death to the Daleks," where they tried to exterminate the Doctor on sight in the part 1 cliffhanger, but their guns wouldn't work. And probably other times.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Except in "The Stolen Earth," when they did exactly that in the cliffhanger. Oh, and in "Death to the Daleks," where they tried to exterminate the Doctor on sight in the part 1 cliffhanger, but their guns wouldn't work. And probably other times.

Plot armour protected him.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I keep wondering if this thread could also be titled "Things to do BEFORE Moffatt leaves". It should be as much his responsibility to set the franchise up for success at the hands of his successor and not simply hand over a pile of smoking continuity wreck (with a bunch of good bits as well) for Chibnall to write his way out of. It's a chance for him to own up to his less popular choices and let the next guy have a cleaner slate to work with. I'll cite how the Hybrid arc mucked things up from the norm as an example of something that didn't pan out well.

Mark

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

In the end, it seemed like the Hybrid arc didn't really mean anything anyway. It was a vague prophecy about some kind of mixed race alien standing in the ruins of Gallifrey. Considering we already saw both the Doctor & Me standing there in the very distant future at the end of the universe, I think we can call the prophecy fulfilled and just never mention it again. Best not to double down on the stuff that didn't work.

 

[Christopher]

I think the point of the Hybrid-prophecy arc was that prophecies are often misinterpreted, that people lead themselves into traps by reading what they want or fear into the vague language of a prophecy. All the prophecy actually said was that the Hybrid would be present at the end of Gallifrey, and the Time Lords jumped to the conclusion that that meant it would cause the end of Gallifrey. And that mistaken reading, motivated by unjustified fear, led to their actions in the story arc. Which is a commentary on letting manufactured fear and paranoia shape our policies -- a very timely statement in the current sociopolitical climate.

So of course the Hybrid-prophecy story is resolved. The fact that it had no real, great payoff was the payoff. I thought that was quite clear.

Rowling did the same thing in Harry Potter. The prophecy was only powerful because Voldemort chose to make a big thing out of it. Harry wasn't really some ultra-special chosen savior; he just got pushed into that role by everyone around him because of their expectation (especially Voldemort's) that that was who he was destined to be. What mattered wasn't the prophecy itself, but the things that people read into it and the actions they took as a result.

 

[Mr Awe]

So of course the Hybrid-prophecy story is resolved. The fact that it had no real, great payoff was the payoff. I thought that was quite clear.

Sadly, yes, that was clear. I'm not sure if that was the original intent or they changed their minds during the course of the series. But, it was a big let down. At this point, I hope that storyline is gone for good. It's just not a good idea to build something up with the idea that it won't live up to expectations. Yes, that's definitely true in real life--but this is entertainment!

Mr Awe