Things to go when Moffat leaves

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm confused now. The Daleks are the creation of Terry Nation, and his estate dictates that they have to appear in every series at least once or the rights to use them will be forfeit to the BBC. So how are they the exception if the Weeping Angels can survive without Moffat on the show? Isn't he their creator so where are his rights, unless I am reading things totally wrong here?

BTW what I'd like to see go when he does leave is the end of "the special companion that is more awesome then the Doctor" stuff that we've had over the years.

I just wish we could see an end to the Daleks, and a new villain, or something old that hasn't been around for a long time.... I'm so over them.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm confused now. The Daleks are the creation of Terry Nation, and his estate dictates that they have to appear in every series at least once or the rights to use them will be forfeit to the BBC. So how are they the exception if the Weeping Angels can survive without Moffat on the show? Isn't he their creator so where are his rights, unless I am reading things totally wrong here?

1) The claim that BBC has to use the Daleks every year is just a rumour. Though granted, it's a rumour that's never been disproven, and indeed the fact the Daleks do show up every year, and even have special scenes ham-fisted into episodes that don't require them on years where there are no proper Dalek episodes isn't helping dispel that myth.
2) It's well known that the power the Nation estate has over the Daleks is somewhat unique compared to most other arrangements between BBC and the creators of something related to the show. Suffice to say, the Nation estate knows they own a pop culture icon, and BBC will admit the Nation estate has them by the balls. Plus, Terry Nation was very territorial over the Daleks when he was alive, allegedly demanding approval over each draft of Dalek scripts written in the 80s.
3) Regardless, yes Moffat does own the Weeping Angels, but I don't think he's anywhere near as territorial over them as Nation was and his estate is over the Daleks. As long as he is paid his royalties, he's likely alright with them continuing to appear on the show after he's stepped down from running it. Just like he's used aliens and concepts RTD created.

 

[Christopher]

1) The claim that BBC has to use the Daleks every year is just a rumour. Though granted, it's a rumour that's never been disproven, and indeed the fact the Daleks do show up every year, and even have special scenes ham-fisted into episodes that don't require them on years where there are no proper Dalek episodes isn't helping dispel that myth.

But there were many long stretches in the original series in which the Daleks didn't appear because Nation wouldn't allow their use. They weren't in seasons 5-8 except for a brief cameo in "The War Games." They were absent in seasons 13-16, 18-20 (aside from a cameo in "The Five Doctors"), 23-24, and 26. The First and Third Doctors were the only classic-series Doctors to have more than two Dalek stories (discounting cameos), and the Fifth through Seventh Doctors had only one proper Dalek story each. So just over half of the 26 seasons of the original series were effectively Dalek-free, and it was generally because Nation withheld their use for various reasons. (The Virgin New Adventures novels weren't allowed to use the Daleks either, at least not for the first few years when I was reading them -- they could talk about the Daleks, and they told lots of stories around the periphery of the Dalek wars and had characters dealing with their aftermath and whatever, but they couldn't actually depict Daleks directly.) So I'd be surprised if his estate had instituted a policy requiring their use in the new series. That would be quite a reversal.

The reason the Daleks show up so much in the modern series is because the producers want to use them. They're the archetypal Doctor Who villains, so they keep showing up. It's the same reason Professor Moriarty shows up in virtually every screen adaptation of Sherlock Holmes.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^Unfortunately, until we actually go an entirely Dalek-free year, the rumour is going to persist. Hell, already this year the Daleks have been used in Pearl Mackie's introduction promo, thus satisfying any supposed obligations, I'm sure.

 

[Ithekro]

Considering how many writers and directors what to do a Dalek story, we won't see the end of them for a very long time. Plus every Doctor wants to do a Dalek story, not only because of tradition, but also to show how the new Doctor reacts to the Daleks.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^"You're not truly the Doctor until you face the Daleks." Actually spoken by a few of the actors and even Moffat himself. Indeed, that's why Moffat was so insistent on having Daleks show up early in Smith and Capaldi's runs.

Plus there are people who only watch Doctor Who on three occasions: Christmas episodes, Dalek episodes and regeneration episodes.

 

[Christopher]

^^"You're not truly the Doctor until you face the Daleks." Actually spoken my a few of the actors and even Moffat himself.

There's some merit to that, since one could say that the show itself didn't become Doctor Who as we know it until "The Daleks." Sure, that was only the second serial, but it was the one that made the show a hit and shattered Sydney Newman's initial resistance to doing monster stories. And it was the first time the protagonists prioritized helping others over their own getaway, although it was Ian who pushed for that over the Doctor's objections. It would still be a few more serials before the Doctor himself would become more activist ("The Sensorites," perhaps, but definitely by "Planet of Giants"), but that was the culmination of the trend that began in "The Daleks."

 

[Ithekro]

And by the time of the Second Doctor, the Daleks were something to be fought, and that remained the case to present. Morality sometimes being questioned by the Doctor himself...especially over Davros. But he did so even earlier when he "corrupted" several with human to make them question orders of the Emperor way back in Victoria's time.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

So the Doctor knew that Davros was going to extract the artron energy from his body in The Witch's Familiar. What a doofus? Now the Daleks are infused with timelord energy and so is Davros.

The hybrid part of the story confused me. Was it Ashildr and Clara or the Daleks now infused with the Doctor's regeneration energy?

 

[The Wormhole]

The hybrid part of the story confused me. Was it Ashildr and Clara or the Daleks now infused with the Doctor's regeneration energy?

It's actually the team of the Doctor and Clara. Or so it was explained to me in the Hell Bent review thread when I indicated I didn't understand what the hell the Hybrid was supposed to be either. I wouldn't recommend thinking about it any further. I'm pretty sure Moffat didn't.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It's actually the team of the Doctor and Clara. Or so it was explained to me in the Hell Bent review thread when I indicated I didn't understand what the hell the Hybrid was supposed to be either. I wouldn't recommend thinking about it any further. I'm pretty sure Moffat didn't.

Yeah it would seem so.

He's made a hole for the Daleks now plotwise as they are now part timelord.

 

[Mr Soak]

Didn't the junk Dalek mutants from the sewers kill all the affected Daleks, though? Am I misremembering?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Didn't the junk Dalek mutants from the sewers kill all the affected Daleks, though? Am I misremembering?

No we see them start to attack and kill the others but we never fully see the aftermath of that. And as we all know they come back like cockroaches. And Davros now has a whole new lease on life thanks to the Doctor on this occasion.

 

[The Wormhole]

He's made a hole for the Daleks now plotwise as they are now part timelord.

Which will be forgotten about in the next Dalek episode, or at the very least quickly written off, just like the Daleks losing the memories of the Doctor in Asylum of the Daleks was written over in Time of the Doctor.

 

[Ithekro]

The Daleks will be the Daleks.

 

[diankra]

There's some merit to that, since one could say that the show itself didn't become Doctor Who as we know it until "The Daleks." Sure, that was only the second serial, but it was the one that made the show a hit and shattered Sydney Newman's initial resistance to doing monster stories. And it was the first time the protagonists prioritized helping others over their own getaway, although it was Ian who pushed for that over the Doctor's objections. It would still be a few more serials before the Doctor himself would become more activist ("The Sensorites," perhaps, but definitely by "Planet of Giants"), but that was the culmination of the trend that began in "The Daleks."

The Savages is an important though missing one from that point of view, as it's maybe the first time the Doctor has a full-on rant about what he objects to being immoral full stop... even though it's being done by humans, not Daleks. And more significantly, the writer just saw that as what the Doctor does, not some big turning point for the character.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The Daleks will be the Daleks.

Whatever happened to the coloured iDaleks from Victory Of The Daleks?

They've been totally forgotten.

 

[The Wormhole]

Whatever happened to the coloured iDaleks from Victory Of The Daleks?

They've been totally forgotten.

Long story short, fans didn't respond well to them. Moffat tried to backtrack on this by claiming the RTD era Daleks were still going to be around, the New Paradigm were just meant to be the ruling officer class, despite the fact the New Paradigm were clearly meant to replace the RTDaleks. And indeed we did see a mixture of New Paradigm and RTDaleks in Asylum of the Daleks. Then we went back to RTDaleks permanently. I suspect the New Paradigm may turn up again in a decade or so whenever the producer of the time decides to do another assembly of all the various Dalek models and nostalgia will work to the New Paradigm's favor.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Fans sometimes piss me off.

I liked the new designs

 

[EnderAKH]

What I miss is the way Dalek treated them in Season 1, truly unstoppable micro tanks designed to protect the driver, and kill as many as possible. Bullets that we've since seen blow up Daleks just disintegrated in their personal defense shields. The upper portion rotated as the Dalek sat in place to give a truly 360 degree killing range. The suckers projected force fields that could be used as effectively as any hand. Regenerative capabilities.

I understand that brings with it a conundrum, that they are truly scary at that power level, but at the same time it is difficult to write a way to defeat them without coming up with some silly weakness. But I do miss how dangerous those Daleks were. Now we're back to "Oh, them again?" Daleks.