Things that annoy you off about TOS

[EnsignTOS]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

She did. And it was interesting to see her saavy at multiple stations. I'm assuming she could probably man the science station, but that was given to Chekov later on the show...

I feel very strongly about that too, and I mentioned it elsewhere here as well.

It's kinda heartbreaking that we never saw Uhura take the conn, especially when someone like DeSalle took the conn, and I believe Chekov might've at one point too.

I guess we just have to be glad she was there, inspiring black women as a lieutenant on the bridge. But it would've been nice to see her even just sitting at the captain's chair. It didn't even need to be a "big deal" because in the 23rd century, Uhura sitting at the chair in command would be seen as just a competent officer taking over for her captain while he's away.

A little throwaway moment with Kirk rushing onto the bridge and Uhura getting up and walking over to her station with no importance given to the moment. I would've settled for that.

I think it may have been implied at times that Uhura maybe had the conn off camera. Every now and then Kirk would call the bridge to get a status report or to relay an order and he would talk to Uhura. Granted, she was the communications officer, but he most likely wanted to talk directly to the officer who had the conn and that seemed to be Uhura.

Hey, yeah...you're right! Well, I hope this is the truth!

 

[Maurice]

Not to defend ending of "The Enemy Within" but when one reads the behind-the-scenes docs early in the show's production there are notes that Rand and Spock are friends. I suspect this line began with that relationship in mind... Spock could say something no one else could.

Anyway, here's how the script describes the scene:

 

[erastus25]

Not to defend ending of "The Enemy Within" but when one reads the behind-the-scenes docs early in the show's production there are notes that Rand and Spock are friends. I suspect this line began with that relationship in mind... Spock could say something no one else could.

Anyway, here's how the script describes the scene:

While you may be right that a Spock/Rand friendship would help things a TINY TINY TINY TINY bit, I think this script excerpt makes it even worse at it explicitly states that Rand was infatuated with a man that almost raped her.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Maybe Rand just likes it rough and has rape fantasies. No one made a big deal about Jadzia being into Klingon BDSM.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Not to defend ending of "The Enemy Within" but when one reads the behind-the-scenes docs early in the show's production there are notes that Rand and Spock are friends. I suspect this line began with that relationship in mind... Spock could say something no one else could.

Anyway, here's how the script describes the scene:

While you may be right that a Spock/Rand friendship would help things a TINY TINY TINY TINY bit, I think this script excerpt makes it even worse at it explicitly states that Rand was infatuated with a man that almost raped her.

I don't see that it says that at all. Rand never indicates infatuation with Evil-Kirk. On the contrary, the man she likes isn't the one that almost raped her, because Evil-Kirk isn't Kirk. She likes Kirk. Evil-Kirk did something that Kirk would never have done.

As for Spock and Rand being friends, that's the only way a comment like Spock's could possibly work, since the comment is so intimate. Finding qualities of Evil-Kirk interesting does not imply finding the whole of Evil-Kirk interesting, and nor does it imply infatuation with Evil-Kirk.

 

[erastus25]

Maybe Rand just likes it rough and has rape fantasies. No one made a big deal about Jadzia being into Klingon BDSM.

Uh...the latter is consensual, the former is not.

Not to defend ending of "The Enemy Within" but when one reads the behind-the-scenes docs early in the show's production there are notes that Rand and Spock are friends. I suspect this line began with that relationship in mind... Spock could say something no one else could.

Anyway, here's how the script describes the scene:

While you may be right that a Spock/Rand friendship would help things a TINY TINY TINY TINY bit, I think this script excerpt makes it even worse at it explicitly states that Rand was infatuated with a man that almost raped her.

I don't see that it says that at all. Rand never indicates infatuation with Evil-Kirk. On the contrary, the man she likes isn't the one that almost raped her, because Evil-Kirk isn't Kirk. She likes Kirk. Evil-Kirk did something that Kirk would never have done.

As for Spock and Rand being friends, that's the only way a comment like Spock's could possibly work, since the comment is so intimate. Finding qualities of Evil-Kirk interesting does not imply finding the whole of Evil-Kirk interesting, and nor does it imply infatuation with Evil-Kirk.

The "as if he had read her thoughts" implies that she was intrigued by evil-Kirk. After he tried to rape her. And she makes it clear when talking to Kirk earlier on the same page she knows the difference between evil-Kirk and Kirk. I'm sorry, but implying that someone is intrigued by someone who tried to rape them just a few hours prior really isn't okay.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Maybe Rand just likes it rough and has rape fantasies. No one made a big deal about Jadzia being into Klingon BDSM.

Uh...the latter is consensual, the former is not.

While you may be right that a Spock/Rand friendship would help things a TINY TINY TINY TINY bit, I think this script excerpt makes it even worse at it explicitly states that Rand was infatuated with a man that almost raped her.

I don't see that it says that at all. Rand never indicates infatuation with Evil-Kirk. On the contrary, the man she likes isn't the one that almost raped her, because Evil-Kirk isn't Kirk. She likes Kirk. Evil-Kirk did something that Kirk would never have done.

As for Spock and Rand being friends, that's the only way a comment like Spock's could possibly work, since the comment is so intimate. Finding qualities of Evil-Kirk interesting does not imply finding the whole of Evil-Kirk interesting, and nor does it imply infatuation with Evil-Kirk.

The "as if he had read her thoughts" implies that she was intrigued by evil-Kirk. After he tried to rape her. And she makes it clear when talking to Kirk earlier on the same page she knows the difference between evil-Kirk and Kirk. I'm sorry, but implying that someone is intrigued by someone who tried to rape them just a few hours prior really isn't okay.

You said "infatuated" before, now you're saying "intrigued." Those are two different things.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

"The Enemy Within" requires layers of "suspension of disbelief."

- The transporter mechanism on it's most routine day is still pretty close to impossible.

- Kirk's transporter accident roughs up the law of conservation and leaves it bleeding in the street.

- Kirk's career is not imperiled.

If the show had been a comedy, they could have ended it with re-integrated Kirk going to his private washroom and being stunned to find a set of his-and-his bath towels.

 

[eyeresist]

While you may be right that a Spock/Rand friendship would help things a TINY TINY TINY TINY bit, I think this script excerpt makes it even worse at it explicitly states that Rand was infatuated with a man that almost raped her.

I don't see that it says that at all. Rand never indicates infatuation with Evil-Kirk. On the contrary, the man she likes isn't the one that almost raped her, because Evil-Kirk isn't Kirk. She likes Kirk. Evil-Kirk did something that Kirk would never have done.

Agreed. Rand is obviously experiencing some cognitive dissonance, as her attacker and the man she is attracted to share the same face, and indeed, evil-Kirk was an aspect of the whole Kirk, who would be regarded as good. Spock is acknowledging her emotional quandary.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

While you may be right that a Spock/Rand friendship would help things a TINY TINY TINY TINY bit, I think this script excerpt makes it even worse at it explicitly states that Rand was infatuated with a man that almost raped her.

I don't see that it says that at all. Rand never indicates infatuation with Evil-Kirk. On the contrary, the man she likes isn't the one that almost raped her, because Evil-Kirk isn't Kirk. She likes Kirk. Evil-Kirk did something that Kirk would never have done.

Agreed. Rand is obviously experiencing some cognitive dissonance, as her attacker and the man she is attracted to share the same face, and indeed, evil-Kirk was an aspect of the whole Kirk, who would be regarded as good. Spock is acknowledging her emotional quandary.

Ah, bingo. Very well put and explained.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

News from this week: Navy captain makes "inappropriate comments," loses his command:

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/us...after-3-months-as-commanding-officer-1.305925

News from the future: Starfleet captain runs amok, assaults several crew members, and discharges a weapon in the engine room causing serious damage to Transporter ionizer and imperiling lives of landing party. Admiralty reports that Kirk is "doing a heck of a job."

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd261.jpg

But who would have it any other way? We need big events in episodic TV, and at the same time we need to preserve the premise.

 

[EnsignTOS]

News from this week: Navy captain makes "inappropriate comments," loses his command:

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/us...after-3-months-as-commanding-officer-1.305925

News from the future: Starfleet captain runs amok, assaults several crew members, and discharges a weapon in the engine room causing serious damage to Transporter ionizer and imperiling lives of landing party. Admiralty reports that Kirk is "doing a heck of a job."

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd261.jpg

Oh, wow.

 

[Maurice]

In the U.S. Navy if your ship scrapes the pier, you lose command. Seriously.

 

[Melakon]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

The jokey epilogues started more in the second season and it was just the style of '50's and '60's television. The one that bothers me is the ending of "Doomsday Machine." Kirk was too flippant about encountering another doomsday type machine.

NOTHING will beat Spock in the Naked Time. . .

I'm not sure what this is referring to. There's no ha-ha moment with Spock at the end of "The Naked Time" really. Did you mean Spock's emotional breakdown in the corridor and briefing room was comedic? For the last 48 years or so, I've read that as a dramatic moment.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

The jokey epilogues started more in the second season and it was just the style of '50's and '60's television. The one that bothers me is the ending of "Doomsday Machine." Kirk was too flippant about encountering another doomsday type machine.

NOTHING will beat Spock in the Naked Time. . .

I'm not sure what this is referring to. There's no ha-ha moment with Spock at the end of "The Naked Time" really. Did you mean Spock's emotional breakdown in the corridor and briefing room was comedic? For the last 48 years or so, I've read that as a dramatic moment.

And Kirk finding one doomsday machine 'quite sufficient' hardly sounds like he wants to run into more.

 

[erastus25]

In the U.S. Navy if your ship scrapes the pier, you lose command. Seriously.

How many times has that happened?

 

[Melakon]

In the U.S. Navy if your ship scrapes the pier, you lose command. Seriously.

How many times has that happened?

I did an oogly-doogly-Googly of this question, and this came up, but I didn't see any numbers:

http://news.usni.org/2013/09/30/opinion-commanding-officers-getting-fired

 

[suarezguy]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

The main thing is probably having heroic music play almost every. single. time. the Enterprise is shown (even when it is hijacked, which also happened a bit too much).

 

[Maurice]

In the U.S. Navy if your ship scrapes the pier, you lose command. Seriously.

How many times has that happened?

No idea, but it has happened (as told to me by retired Navy guys). Basically, the CO is responsible for everything that happens on/to the ship, and if the crew steers into a pier or whatnot that means it's the CO who gets it. There are plenty of officers who rate a command and never enough ships, so there's no reason to be lenient or forgiving of cock-ups, and it forces the COs to really pay attention and make sure their crews are on the ball and everything is ship-shape. Even when they do great, most COs command one ship for maybe a year or so. They don't stay with the same vessel or crew for years on end. Rotation is the name of the game.

Real word example:

USS HORNET's World War II Commanding Officers

Captain Miles R. Browning 29 November 1943 – 29 May 1944
Captain William D. Sample 29 May 1944 – 9 August 1944
Captain Austin K. Doyle 9 August 1944 – 1 August 1945
Captain C.R. Brown 1 August 1945 – 14 Feb 1946

USS HORNET CVA-12’s Commanding Officers

Captain Milton A. Nation - 11 Sep 1953 - 19 July 1954
Captain Frank A. Brandley - 19 July 1954 - 20 July 1955
Captain Norwood A. Campbell - 20 July 1955 - 18 Aug 1956
Captain William W. Hollister - 18 Aug 1956 - 12 Aug 1957
Captain Thomas F. Connolly - 12 Aug 1957 - 25 Aug 1958

USS HORNET CVS-12’s Commanding Officers

Captain Marshall W. White - 25 Aug 1958 - 20 Nov 1959
Captain Ernest E. Christensen - 20 Nov 1959 - 02 Nov 1960
Captain David C. Richardson - 02 Nov 1960 - 18 Oct 1961
Captain Hoyt D. Mann - 18 Oct 1961 - 24 Sep 1962
Captain Ellis J. Fisher - 24 Sep 1962 - 25 Sep 1963
Captain J.I. Hardy - 25 Sep 1963 - 15 Jul 1964
Captain M.A. Hadden - 15 Jul 1964 - 01 Jul 1965
Captain W.M. Pardee - 01 Jul 1965 - 01 Apr 1966
Captain Van V. Eason - 01 Apr 1966 - 27 Feb 1967
Captain Gordon H. Robertson - 27 Feb 1967 - 23 Feb 1968
Captain Jackson A. Stockton - 23 Feb 1968 - 23 May 1969
Captain Carl J. Seiberlich - 23 May 1969 - 26 Jun 1970

 

[erastus25]

The main thing is probably having heroic music play almost every. single. time. the Enterprise is shown (even when it is hijacked, which also happened a bit too much).

TAS is even worse. They have about five musical cues total, I swear, and everyone is played ad nauseum. It's really distracting.

In the U.S. Navy if your ship scrapes the pier, you lose command. Seriously.

How many times has that happened?

No idea, but it has happened (as told to me by retired Navy guys). Basically, the CO is responsible for everything that happens on/to the ship, and if the crew steers into a pier or whatnot that means it's the CO who gets it. There are plenty of officers who rate a command and never enough ships, so there's no reason to be lenient or forgiving of cock-ups, and it forces the COs to really pay attention and make sure their crews are on the ball and everything is ship-shape. Even when they do great, most COs command one ship for maybe a year or so. They don't stay with the same vessel or crew for years on end. Rotation is the name of the game.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Still sucks though. One map is out of date, you run your ship onto a sandbar that shouldn't be there and *BOOM*...not your ship anymore.