Things that annoy you off about TOS

[Anwar]

Re: Jocular Endings

I didn't like how Spock made fun of Rand nearly getting raped at the end of "Enemy Within" either.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Jocular Endings

I didn't like how Spock made fun of Rand nearly getting raped at the end of "Enemy Within" either.

At the risk of sounding technical it was attempted rape. If Janice hadn't gotten her cabin door open and Wilson hadn't happened to be there just at that moment then it would likely have been different.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Jocular Endings

That's why I said she "nearly" got raped. Still not a nice thing to poke fun at.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

The only thing that really bothers me was the ending to the episodes where they had gone through so much. Mostly it was the trio who would have something cheesy to say and then everyone would laugh very fake and then we see the old E and the end credits. Once in awhile it worked such as Trouble with tribbles. The last min Of a lot of those episodes just get to me now. I do understand that was standard for 60s tv though.

I think this was mostly Fred Frieberger's input. He started doing that in the 2nd season of Space: 1999 as well.

It's a known television trope

Notably parodied in the series Police Squad!

 

[cgervasi]

Joke about Kirk Attacking Rand

I didn't like how Spock made fun of Rand nearly getting raped at the end of "Enemy Within" either.

Were they suggesting that Rand actually liked it? Or were they talking about the exchange Rand had with the evil Kirk? Maybe he really was joking about Kirk attacking her, but that seems hard to imagine.

 

[Maurice]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

Love TOS. The only thing that really bothers me was the ending to the episodes where they had gone through so much. Mostly it was the trio who would have something cheesy to say and then everyone would laugh very fake and then we see the old E and the end credits. Once in awhile it worked such as Trouble with tribbles. The last min Of a lot of those episodes just get to me now. I do understand that was standard for 60s tv though.

I think this was mostly Fred Frieberger's input. He started doing that in the 2nd season of Space: 1999 as well.

The show did that often enough long before Freiberger came aboard. Cutesy haha endings abounded in the second season.

 

[Bixby]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

It has become the thing to do that everyone wants everything explained and it all has to connect in a neat and tidy package. Just as it's become practice to show origins and everyone coming together.

I've recently been watching Hogan's Heroes and it's another series that never explained how Hogan got to the camp and got his operations going. The series simply starts with everything and everyone in place and they never referenced how it all came to be. There is fanfic that has tried to explain the origins. In some stories they get started because Hogan got the idea to make most of his situation and recruited his team from those available. In another take on it Hogan had orders to setup the operation in a POW camp.

And yet the lack of explanation doesn't take one thing away from the enjoyment of the series. Throughout the show occasional references are made to characters' lives before being at Stalag 13, but you really have to pay attention to stitch it together (and some fanfic writers have done just that). In the series we actually learn more about Colonel Klink and Sargeant Shultz than we ever learn about about Hogan and his crew.

I also like the fact that not everything has to be explained to be enjoyed. I've never managed to watch Hogan's Heroes but I believe you.

One just has to see the dozens of movie remakes of old shows to see this phenomena, from 21 Jump Street, to Starsky and Hutch to A-Team to Dragnet to G.I.Joe to I SPY and even to STAR TREK ()...it now seems like you can't do a remake of these shows in media res and just go from there.

I've read recently there will soon be a movie version of CHiPS, the old Erik Estrada show. How much you wanna bet they will feel obligated to show Ponch and John at the academy all the way to their first assignment on the force...

 

[BillJ]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

The scot-free fate of Rojan iN BY ANY OTHER NAME. So much for Kirk not being able to forget Yeoman Whoever,

You have to weigh that one life vs. the 430 on the Enterprise and the possible millions of future lives if the Kelvins do invade.

 

[erastus25]

Another one that just came to mind: At times, Scotty and Checkov are essentialized to stereotypical Scottish and Russians parodies, respectively. It's not as egregious as Up the Long Ladder or anything, but it's still there at times.

 

[f14peter]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

I would have liked to have seen, however:
*Uhura take the conn.

She did take over navigation though.

She did. And it was interesting to see her saavy at multiple stations. I'm assuming she could probably man the science station, but that was given to Chekov later on the show...

She could also tickle the dials at Spock's science station ...

 

[Anwar]

Re: Joke about Kirk Attacking Rand

I didn't like how Spock made fun of Rand nearly getting raped at the end of "Enemy Within" either.

Were they suggesting that Rand actually liked it? Or were they talking about the exchange Rand had with the evil Kirk? Maybe he really was joking about Kirk attacking her, but that seems hard to imagine.

Spock could be a royal asshole sometimes, and apparently back in the 60s rape victims were seen as equally as responsible for what happened.

 

[Commishsleer]

Re: Joke about Kirk Attacking Rand

I didn't like how Spock made fun of Rand nearly getting raped at the end of "Enemy Within" either.

Were they suggesting that Rand actually liked it? Or were they talking about the exchange Rand had with the evil Kirk? Maybe he really was joking about Kirk attacking her, but that seems hard to imagine.

Spock could be a royal asshole sometimes, and apparently back in the 60s rape victims were seen as equally as responsible for what happened.

I think you're taking this out of context. I don't think the Star Trek writers or Spock meant to say Rand deserved it or would have liked it.
Yes its one of the worst Star Trek lines but it wasn't as if Spock spent the rest of the series defending men who raped/attempted to rape women.

Yes it was a stupid thing to say then and it would be stupid to say now.

If we really want to look at the situation closely wouldn't Kirk have been prosecuted (if he wasn't in the military)? I mean it was still Kirk who did it. The law doesn't accept being drunk or on drugs as an excuse for attempted rape.
What if evil Kirk had killed that guy or actually raped Rand, could he have retained command afterwards?

 

[eyeresist]

Another one that just came to mind: At times, Scotty and Checkov are essentialized to stereotypical Scottish and Russians parodies, respectively. It's not as egregious as Up the Long Ladder or anything, but it's still there at times.

In the days before PC, it was generally assumed that people from other countries were stereotypes. That's what a Scotsman or a Russian was, and if you didn't show them robbing or murdering someone, it was taken to be a positive portrayal.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Another one that just came to mind: At times, Scotty and Checkov are essentialized to stereotypical Scottish and Russians parodies, respectively.

Yep, that never thrilled me at all.

Looking at the pictures here reminds me also of how much I hate Rand's wig.

 

[Commishsleer]

Another one that just came to mind: At times, Scotty and Checkov are essentialized to stereotypical Scottish and Russians parodies, respectively. It's not as egregious as Up the Long Ladder or anything, but it's still there at times.

In the days before PC, it was generally assumed that people from other countries were stereotypes. That's what a Scotsman or a Russian was, and if you didn't show them robbing or murdering someone, it was taken to be a positive portrayal.

If he were a 'true' Scotsman, Scotty would be tight with money. And Chekov would be drinking Vodka all the time. There is a fine line between seeing culture and being stereotypical.

 

[mos6507]

I see a strong parallel between Checkov and Worf. The idea was to show how in the future we'd have made peace with whoever our enemies are today (or in the mid 80s, who Trek fans thought the enemy was in Trek).

So if Trek wanted to make Checkov a negative stereotype, he would have been a bad guy. Of course, that's where the Klingons came in, I guess.

 

[mos6507]

Re: Things that piss you off about TOS

The show did that often enough long before Freiberger came aboard. Cutesy haha endings abounded in the second season.

Some of the best trio-exchanges happened during the 'ha-ha' epilogues, like the end of Amok Time and The Enterprise Incident. So whoever's to credit or blame for them, I'd rather have them than not have them.

 

[scotpens]

Re: Joke about Kirk Attacking Rand

Spock could be a royal asshole sometimes, and apparently back in the 60s rape victims were seen as equally as responsible for what happened.

I think you're taking this out of context. I don't think the Star Trek writers or Spock meant to say Rand deserved it or would have liked it.

Yes its one of the worst Star Trek lines but it wasn't as if Spock spent the rest of the series defending men who raped/attempted to rape women.

Yes it was a stupid thing to say then and it would be stupid to say now.

Spock's line about Evil Kirk having "interesting qualities" was meant as sardonic humor. -- as when Spock suggested to Bailey that he have his adrenal glands removed in "The Corbomite Maneuver." That personality trait was soon written out of Spock's character.

If we really want to look at the situation closely wouldn't Kirk have been prosecuted (if he wasn't in the military)? I mean it was still Kirk who did it. The law doesn't accept being drunk or on drugs as an excuse for attempted rape.
What if evil Kirk had killed that guy or actually raped Rand, could he have retained command afterwards?

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe being physically split into a good self and an evil self might be grounds for a diminished-capacity defense.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Re: Joke about Kirk Attacking Rand

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe being physically split into a good self and an evil self might be grounds for a diminished-capacity defense.

I totally agree, with the caveat that in real life, a Navy captain who beats a felony rap using the diminished capacity defense would not keep his command of a capital ship.

A similar thing happened in TNG after "The Best of Both Worlds" Part 2, when Picard got the Enterprise-D back despite having been a Borg making war against us just recently. Starfleet is just not as cautious as the Navy.

 

[eyeresist]

If he were a 'true' Scotsman, Scotty would be tight with money.

But - we don't have money in the future. He'd have to be tight with something else, such as giving the captain sufficient speed:

"I canna push the engines any farther. And besides, it's two weeks till me payday."