They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

[Dream]

Chris Evans - The Human Torch

Actually many people thought Chris Evans as Human Torch and Michael Chiklis as the Thing were the only good things about The Fantastic Four movies. Evans did a good job, even though I think he did much better as Captain America. I think playing a convincing straight man like Cap is much more difficult to do than playing a goofball like Human Torch.

If a JL movie is made, you can guarantee that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and The Flash, will be the leading characters of the movie, despite it being an ensemble feature.

I can understand the big three being the leads, but why Flash? I never considered Flash to be that popular.

 

[Mr Silver]

I can understand the big three being the leads, but why Flash? I never considered Flash to be that popular.

Well, I put it down to those four being the most relatable characters in the JL. You have:

Superman, who represents masculinity, hope and the light. He is the ultimate example of compassion, just as anyone who wields great power is (be it physical, political, economical or otherwise), yet he doesn't abuse it, and still makes time for even the weakest of people. He also represents the "Jesus figure", in that he landed on Earth as a child (descended from the heavens), and is the son of a brilliant scientist (science which would be indistinguishable from magic to us) and a member of a highly advanced race (Gods).

Wonder Woman represents femininity, equality and nature. Her character also displays the more artistic side of humanity, the concept of expression and how something beautiful, can also be extremely powerful.

Batman could be seen as the dark side of humanity, yet carries a great amount of hope along with that dark side. He does whatever he must to bring people to justice - alive. By not killing, he doesn't fully descend into the darkness and this also conveys will and retention of self, despite the often horrific criminals that he deals with . Batman is both a symbol of fear and a symbol of security. He represents a balance, a personfication of yin and yang perhaps?

The Flash represents achievement and victory, something in which we see a great deal of in sport. Flash is the ultimate racer, he sprints ahead to his goal in record timing, leaving everybody else in his wake. He's a scientist, and thus personifies human progression in the field of science, technology and academics. He could also be seen to represent the need for people to take it easy, and not always rush ahead.


Take from this what you will, it's the best shot I can give at explaining why I perceive them as being more relatable than the other characters.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^I agree. Now where should they be based? Hall of Justice, Satellite, or Moon Base. I favor the satellite as it gives the impression that they are watching over the whole Earth. The Hall would be there but is basically a tourist attraction as in Young Justice.

I'm more of a fan of the Moon base Watchtower.

If they use Aquaman, they should go with the Batman: The Brave and the Bold version. "Outrageous!"

Can he still stab Darkseid in the eyes with a trident, because that was kind of badass, especially since Aquaman survived doing it.

 

[Christopher]

One thing I still stand by is that more often than not, a superhero movie has featured either a mediocre actor or a mediocre performance by an otherwise good actor in the lead role. Nerys gave the list of outstanding performances, so here's the list of mediocre performances:

Michael Jai White - Spawn
Ryan Reynolds - Green Lantern
Nicholas Cage - Ghost Rider
George Clooney - Batman (although I regard Clooney as a pretty decent actor, and despite the fact he was assigned to the good list - in this movie, he was awful)
Chris O'Donnell - Robin
Alicia Silverstone - Batgirl
Josh Brolin - Jonah Hex
Shaquille O'Neil - Steel
Ben Affleck - Daredevil
Jennifer Garner - Elektra
Chris Evans - The Human Torch
Ioan Gruffudd - Mr Fantastic
Jessica Alba - The Invisible Woman
Ray Stevenson - The Punisher

Of course, this is all subject to my opinion, although popular opinion of numerous critics and reviewers alike, agrees with me.

But a lot of those weren't mediocre actors, but excellent actors stuck with mediocre scripts, characters, or directors. It doesn't work to lump skilled actors like Clooney or Gruffudd with someone like Shaq or Jessica Alba. And of course Evans was great as Cap, so he's hardly to blame for any shortfalls in the portrayal of the Torch. As for Brolin, I'm not sure how he is as an actor, but from what I've heard about the Jonah Hex movie, no actor could've salvaged that role.

In any case, the point is that not one of those actors was cast solely or primarily for their ability to perform a physical skill -- unless you count Alba, who seemed to be cast mainly for her ability to look good in her underwear. Less-than-gifted actors may be chosen for their looks, their personal charisma, or yes, their fame, but there are always going to be multiple factors in play including how they interact with, or look alongside, the rest of the cast. Even Shaq had two movies' worth of acting experience and a limited performing career in rap prior to Steel.

Superman... also represents the "Jesus figure", in that he landed on Earth as a child (descended from the heavens), and is the son of a brilliant scientist (science which would be indistinguishable from magic to us) and a member of a highly advanced race (Gods).

Well, the problem with the idea of Superman as a Christ figure is that he was created by two Jewish guys. Also ComicsAlliance's Chris Sims deconstructs it rather well here:

As I understand it, the entire deal with Jesus in a nutshell is that he was the Son of God, divinity made flesh who was sent to Earth in order to instruct us as a teacher and then sacrifice His life, redeeming the whole of humanity for its sins through His suffering on both a literal and metaphorical level....

Superman's story, on the other hand, has nothing to do with any of that. The core of his character isn't about sacrifice or redemption at all, it's about having power and choosing to use it for the benefit of everyone rather than just using it for yourself. The comparison seems to be entirely based on the idea that Superman's a really nice guy who came from somewhere up in the sky. That's about where the similarities end.

Jor-El is not Space God. He doesn't send Superman to Earth for our benefit, he sends Superman to Earth because it's the one place in the universe where his son can survive and thrive. He's protecting him, not sacrificing him, and humanity's need for someone to fight robots and Brainiacs doesn't even cross his mind. And, to paraphrase Grant Morrison, I'm pretty sure Heaven didn't explode shortly after Jesus was launched down to Bethlehem.

Superman's morality isn't divine or innate, either. It's not something that he was born with, and it's not something that sets him apart from humanity. Morally speaking, anyone can be as Good as Superman; the only advantage he has is that he was brought up by a couple of really nice farmers. He's an aspirational figure rather than a redemptive one, who shows us that we all have the ability to use our talents for good, we just have to choose to do so.

I think the Superman-as-Christ idea is largely a creation of the 1978 movie. Unfortunately a lot more people watch movies than read comics, so that variant interpretation has come to be seen as the standard.

 

[Captaindemotion]

If you're going to cast Michael Phelps as Aquaman simply on the basis that he's the best swimmer in the world, why not just go the whole hog and cast Usain Bolt as the Flash? After all, he's the fastest man alive? And why not find the soldier in the US Military with the most bravery awards and citations and cast him as Captain America? Or get one of those fellas who climb skyscrapers and cast him as Spider-man?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Here's what the wiki has to say on the subject [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman]:

Because Siegel and Shuster were both Jewish, some religious commentators and pop-culture scholars such as Rabbi Simcha Weinstein and British novelist Howard Jacobson suggest that Superman's creation was partly influenced by Moses,[48][49] and other Jewish elements. More recently, this interpretation has been endorsed by biographer Larry Tye.[50] For example, Superman's Kryptonian name, "Kal-El", resembles the Hebrew words קל-אל, which can be taken to mean "voice of God".[51] The suffix "el", meaning "(of) God," is also found in the name of angels (e.g. Gabriel, Ariel), who are flying humanoid agents of good with superhuman powers. Tye suggests that this "Voice of God" is an allusion to Moses' role as a prophet.[50] Moreover, Kal-El's parents send him away in a vessel, delivering him to new adoptive parents in an alien culture in order to save him from impending doom, just as Moses' parents do.[50] "The narratives of Krypton's birth and death borrowed the language of Genesis."[50]

On the other hand, Superman has been seen by others as being an analogy for Jesus, being a savior of humanity.[41][49][50][52][53] Furthermore, the surname Kent, in early 20th century real life, was a common Americanization of "Cohen," and Clark Kent's wimpy, bumbling persona strongly resembled the classic Yiddish schlemiel.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Besides, I wouldn't call Phelp's ability to lap a pool a few seconds faster than the average man "super powered" in this context.

You severely understate his abilities. Could an average man swim 400 meters, using 4 different techniques almost flawlessly and then finish in under 2 minutes? If you know of anyone who can, then they should immediately drop everything and compete in swim medley competitions.

I'm just screwing with you all about the Phelps thing. Although, I did consider the possibility that people might be chasing him for a potential Aquaman film, to capitalise on his success.

One thing I still stand by is that more often than not, a superhero movie has featured either a mediocre actor or a mediocre performance by an otherwise good actor in the lead role. Nerys gave the list of outstanding performances, so here's the list of mediocre performances:

Michael Jai White - Spawn
Ryan Reynolds - Green Lantern
Nicholas Cage - Ghost Rider
George Clooney - Batman (although I regard Clooney as a pretty decent actor, and despite the fact he was assigned to the good list - in this movie, he was awful)
Chris O'Donnell - Robin
Alicia Silverstone - Batgirl
Josh Brolin - Jonah Hex
Shaquille O'Neil - Steel
Ben Affleck - Daredevil
Jennifer Garner - Elektra
Chris Evans - The Human Torch
Ioan Gruffudd - Mr Fantastic
Jessica Alba - The Invisible Woman
Ray Stevenson - The Punisher

Of course, this is all subject to my opinion, although popular opinion of numerous critics and reviewers alike, agrees with me.

If a JL movie is made, you can guarantee that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and The Flash, will be the leading characters of the movie, despite it being an ensemble feature.

All you've done is list actors who were in bad films, not mediocre actors. Most of them are better than mediocre actors, some are pretty damn good.


Of course some characters will be leads and others secondary. Even in the recent Avengers film Black Widow, Hawkeye and even Hulk took a backseat to Cap, Iron Man and Thor.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Here's what the wiki has to say on the subject [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman]:

Because Siegel and Shuster were both Jewish, some religious commentators and pop-culture scholars such as Rabbi Simcha Weinstein and British novelist Howard Jacobson suggest that Superman's creation was partly influenced by Moses,[48][49] and other Jewish elements. More recently, this interpretation has been endorsed by biographer Larry Tye.[50] For example, Superman's Kryptonian name, "Kal-El", resembles the Hebrew words קל-אל, which can be taken to mean "voice of God".[51] The suffix "el", meaning "(of) God," is also found in the name of angels (e.g. Gabriel, Ariel), who are flying humanoid agents of good with superhuman powers. Tye suggests that this "Voice of God" is an allusion to Moses' role as a prophet.[50] Moreover, Kal-El's parents send him away in a vessel, delivering him to new adoptive parents in an alien culture in order to save him from impending doom, just as Moses' parents do.[50] "The narratives of Krypton's birth and death borrowed the language of Genesis."[50]

On the other hand, Superman has been seen by others as being an analogy for Jesus, being a savior of humanity.[41][49][50][52][53] Furthermore, the surname Kent, in early 20th century real life, was a common Americanization of "Cohen," and Clark Kent's wimpy, bumbling persona strongly resembled the classic Yiddish schlemiel.

Never heard of the Kent/Cohen connection before. Interesting.

 

[Christopher]

I really, really doubt that S&S consciously said to each other "Let's create a religious allegory fraught with Jewish symbolism while we write this story about a guy in tights and a cape who beats up slum lords and tosses cars around." I think they were just trying to create an adventure story, drawing on pulp heroes like Doc Savage, comics like Flash Gordon, movie stars (Shuster they named Clark Kent after actors Clark Gable and Kent Taylor), and mythic strongmen like Hercules and Samson, and addressing the rampant crime and corruption of their day. Any influences from things like the Moses story were probably unconscious, just part of the conceptual background they were raised with. Literary critics often try way too hard to read secret meanings and messages into creative works so that they'll have something to talk about.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I find the parallel between Moses, putting the baby in a basket and sending him downriver to escape death, fascinating. That does seem like more than a coincidence to me. Granted, it could be unconscious.

 

[Captain Craig]

I find the parallel between Moses, putting the baby in a basket and sending him downriver to escape death, fascinating. That does seem like more than a coincidence to me. Granted, it could be unconscious.

It's not. Being Jews it's been stated in a documentary that they crafted Superman off of what they knew best. As many artists usually do they speak with their background.
I want to say it's mentioned in the documentary Look, Up in the Sky.

 

[Set Harth]

I have absolutely no idea what issue it was, but there was an old Superman comic that got into the history of Krypton. It reminded me of the Old Testament.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I have absolutely no idea what issue it was, but there was an old Superman comic that got into the history of Krypton. It reminded me of the Old Testament.

I recall a comic where the past of Krypton was just like Earth. Their "20th Century" looked a lot like the 1950's on Earth complete with a Daily Planet that included doppelgangers of Perry, Jimmy and Lois.

 

[Christopher]

I've read Silver Age stories about Krypton, and it owed far more to Flash Gordon than the Old Testament. Honestly, folks, historically most comic-book writers -- aside from Al Hartley -- have not been writing thinly veiled religious allegories. They've just been writing adventure stories that they thought would be entertaining.

 

[Captain Craig]

The topic was not Krypton specifically it was just the origins of Superman.
Krypton, no doubt shares imagery with Flash Gordon but all that was explored later.

Superman's origin is indeed based of off Moses from the OT. Nothing wrong with that.
Krypton is another matter you've just interjected.

 

[Mister Fandango]

Superman's origin is indeed based of off Moses from the OT. Nothing wrong with that.

Except Siegel and Shuster themselves both denied that. God forbid a story about an orphan just be about an orphan. A concept which, in case it's not abundantly clear, existed well before Moses ever did.

And considering the only similarity between Superman and Moses is that they're both orphans, I don't know how people even come to that conclusion to begin with. Other than the fact that Siegel and Shuster happened to be Jewish. Which, I guess in painful racist minds, means everything they think and do must revolve around their religion.

Or did I miss the part where an evil alien king ordered all Kryptonian children to be drowned, which is why Jor-El sent Kal-El into space? And when during his origin story did Kal-El ever return to Krypton in order to free his fellow Kryptonians (the chosen of Rao, which I also have no recollection of them ever being referred to as) from slavery? Because I definitely missed that chapter, too.

 

[Captain Craig]

^^^
It wasn't my documentary, chill dude.

 

[Christopher]

Except Siegel and Shuster themselves both denied that. God forbid a story about an orphan just be about an orphan. A concept which, in case it's not abundantly clear, existed well before Moses ever did.

And considering the only similarity between Superman and Moses is that they're both orphans, I don't know how people even come to that conclusion to begin with.

Well, there's a bit more to it than that. Moses wasn't just an orphan, but an orphan who was placed in a small craft and sent away by his parents to protect him from death. So there is a real parallel there, one that I for one recognized long before I realized Superman's creators were Jewish.

But as you say, the trope of infants being sent away by their parents to save their lives is a recurring mythological archetype, found with figures like Oedipus, Romulus & Remus, Kama, etc. (and more recently Luke and Leia, Quinn Mallory of Sliders, Leela of Futurama, Po of Kung Fu Panda, and the lead character of the current Once Upon a Time). The Biblical account of Moses's infancy is one of the oldest recorded iterations of that archetype, but it's probably not the first.

 

[Trekker4747]

So, was Superman's bris performed on Krypton or did the Kents have to perform one, somehow, once baby Kal-El got to Earth? And did they raise Clark knowing he's from an alien race of advanced Jews or did they raise him in their more Protestant ways?

 

[Set Harth]

or did the Kents have to perform one, somehow, once baby Kal-El got to Earth?

Yeah, that'll work.