Quoted for truth.
These Are The Voyages - Your Opinion, Please
- Thread starter thew40
- Start date
Quoted for truth.
I suppose you're correct there, but keep one thing in mind: There are people out there who can find good things in what the vast majority of others would call an abomination. (Example: Jeffrey Dahmer was a quiet guy and a good neighbor)
I guess you're a better person and more open minded than I am.
Right you are, sir.
If anyone wants my list fo reasons why I feel certain fans like TATV, PM me. I would like to discuss it, but I don't want to break the rules (what ever they may be this week).
Hookay, when you scrape bottom by comparing TATV to a serial killer, you've jumped the shark. You've had your jollies. If you're both still hell-bent on throwing rocks at people you don't agree with, kindly do it elsewhere.
"TATV" is nowhere in the league of a serial killer to be sure...but it did give me Teh Sooper AIDS.
Middleman just used Dahmer as an example of how good things can be found even in the worst of us (or things
).Take Star Trek V for example. One of the worst, most idiotic sci-fi movies in history, an insult to human intelligence... Yet it had a beautiful opening sequence, a moving soundtrack, some great humor and character moments....
...While same cannot be said for TATV...
Jesus Christ, it just hit me... TATV is worse than ST V!
Jesus Christ, it just hit me... TATV is worse than ST V!
There you go.
Now that's saying something!
STAR TREK V and "TATV."
The secret cocktail in Jack Kevorkian's death-drip.
The secret cocktail in Jack Kevorkian's death-drip.
Isn't euthanasia supposed to be mercy killing? Like, painless and stuff? I mean, I suppose there are some terminally ill masochists who prefer to be beaten to death... Well, I'll just keep copies of ST V and TATV in a special black box labeled with a "skull and crossbones" symbol, just in case some tumor eats away parts of my brain and turns me into a raging masochistic wack job... I mean, you never know, right?
First fifteen minutes? No, not at all. The rest? You bet your ass it is.
Bran Ferren's effects alone make me wanna wretch half the time.
That movie needs a serious digital CGI remastering job done for a future disc release.
Being an all around Trek fan (like sex, you can complain but it still beats nothin'), I don't have a problem with bringing in the TNG bookends, as a way of showing how the ENT crew affected the entire Trek timeline. I mean, sure it may have been better to show the ENT characters themselves really facing their own challenges and creating the UFP themselves, after all, it was their series, yes? TNG didn't go to TOS, DS9 didn't go to VOY, VOY didn't go to any of them (ok except DS9 in the premier), but ENT was capped by TNG. I can understand why that would rankle serious fans. For me, it was just another epi, you know, and not necessarily great at ending the series.
Here's where TATV took a wrong turn IMHO: embedding it into the Pegasus epi, when it so easily could have been done in any other context; even a fictitious D mission would have been preferable. Or make Riker just have to give a darn speech at some function and wish to seek some historical perspective. ANYTHING but shoehorning those beloved actors into the impossible illusion of playing younger versions of themselves. [NOTE TO HOLLYWOOD: GET YOUNG ACTORS TO PLAY YOUNG PEOPLE. YES, EVEN WELL-KNOWN CHARACTERS.] Let alone play younger versions of themselves in a referencable episode! Those actors deserve better than that, and I commend their courage to take on such a ridiculous proposition with grace and humor.
The other wrong turn was having Trip only being able to deal with a threat by killing himself. I guess they wanted to turn him into a hero - just like they wanted to do with Data. But that kind of lionizing at the expense of the characters' lives - rings false. What a waste. For example, in Data's case, we knew he was heroic. He was also resourceful enough to solve that problem ten different ways without sacrificing himself. In Data's case, I would much rather have seen him go out like the Godfather - playing with a child and quietly shutting down. Now that would have been humanizing - and would have made his life about more than plain ideology. They let him die a pinocchio. They really should have let him die a real boy.
In the case of Tucker, it just felt gratuitious. Like, let's just throw whatever we can to make the fire bigger.
So remove the Pegasus context and the death of Trip, and that might change some people's minds about TATV.
And if I had to choose just one, it would be the Pegasus context. Absolutely destroys any illusion of continuity, and was enough to undermine the entire episode and attack the entire series and cap the entire television franchise in rather ham-handed fashion.
Still better than nothin' though.
Here's where TATV took a wrong turn IMHO: embedding it into the Pegasus epi, when it so easily could have been done in any other context; even a fictitious D mission would have been preferable. Or make Riker just have to give a darn speech at some function and wish to seek some historical perspective. ANYTHING but shoehorning those beloved actors into the impossible illusion of playing younger versions of themselves. [NOTE TO HOLLYWOOD: GET YOUNG ACTORS TO PLAY YOUNG PEOPLE. YES, EVEN WELL-KNOWN CHARACTERS.] Let alone play younger versions of themselves in a referencable episode! Those actors deserve better than that, and I commend their courage to take on such a ridiculous proposition with grace and humor.
The other wrong turn was having Trip only being able to deal with a threat by killing himself. I guess they wanted to turn him into a hero - just like they wanted to do with Data. But that kind of lionizing at the expense of the characters' lives - rings false. What a waste. For example, in Data's case, we knew he was heroic. He was also resourceful enough to solve that problem ten different ways without sacrificing himself. In Data's case, I would much rather have seen him go out like the Godfather - playing with a child and quietly shutting down. Now that would have been humanizing - and would have made his life about more than plain ideology. They let him die a pinocchio. They really should have let him die a real boy.
In the case of Tucker, it just felt gratuitious. Like, let's just throw whatever we can to make the fire bigger.
So remove the Pegasus context and the death of Trip, and that might change some people's minds about TATV.
And if I had to choose just one, it would be the Pegasus context. Absolutely destroys any illusion of continuity, and was enough to undermine the entire episode and attack the entire series and cap the entire television franchise in rather ham-handed fashion.
Still better than nothin' though.
That would take care of two of TATV's three major problems
I'm not so sure I can agree.
Triskelion, I really like your assessment and agree with you completely. There are two other things I would have to add to the list of major problems with TATV and they are 1) After six more years, ten total, NOT ONE member of the senior staff was promoted or reassigned, or took a transfer? 2) In Bound it is made clear that Trip & T'Pol are bondmates. What the hell happened? They couldn't just "break up." That made no sense.
I just read an interview with Connor Trinneer on GateWorld.com where he said that the way Trip died made no sense. That he got out of worse things many times before. It was out of character. I have to agree - that response wasn't right for his character at all.
I just read an interview with Connor Trinneer on GateWorld.com where he said that the way Trip died made no sense. That he got out of worse things many times before. It was out of character. I have to agree - that response wasn't right for his character at all.
Do you really agree Aikiweezie? Or are you about to throw me across the room?
Onegaeshimasu!
Onegaeshimasu!
I cannot agree with you more. You hit it right on the head. Trip and Data were stupid deaths. I felt NOTHING when they died because they were so stupid. Contrast that to when Spock sacrifices himself in TWOK. That was emotional and heroic. But Trip's and Data's deaths were dumb which made them senseless.
In the case of Trip, what irks me is that there are no security or MACO's anywhere to be seen when the aliens board the ship. The corridors are empty. Where the hell is Malcolm and his team? When I first watched the episode, I thought Trip was just stalling because he knew the MACO's would be there any second (hell, they ALWAYS were when in the expanse!). But nope, nobody ever shows up when the frickin Captain and Commander of the ship are under attack!
I hate deaths in a finale because they're just done for ratings and because they sound good in the trailer. But as a viewer, it leaves you feeling sad. Sad that your favourite crew member was just 'killed off' for no good reason. The credits go up for the last time and you're saddened thinking 'shit, Trip is dead!' The death ruined the entire aspect of the Federation charter being signed and that the voyages will continue. And what makes it even worse is that Malcolm, Hoshi, and Travis are complaining about their nosebleed seats instead of thinking about the friend and shipmate that just 'gave his life' for them to be there. It's a slap in the face to fans.
Deaths are not needed in finales ever. Take "All Good Things..." for TNG. I loved that the ending was the ENTIRE crew together and then the ship flies off. It leaves the viewer feeling happy, hopeful, and wondering what they'll explore next.
Do you really agree Aikiweezie? Or are you about to throw me across the room?
Onegaeshimasu!
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