There is no prime timeline anymore

[urbandk]

If that doesn't happen then Picard, Sisko & Co as we know them has quite simply been earsed from existance. It's not a parallel universe situation at all... .

Why would Picard and Sisko be erased? Earth didn't blow up. There's no reason to think that Picard's ancestors living in a wine growing area of France wouldn't meet and marry the same people they did in old timeline. Same for Sisko's ancestors.. and certainly the prophets could still have chosen Sisko's father as the mate of one of them.

As Star Trek has shown, parallel universes have nothing in common with other universes they're parallel to. Just look at how different the mirror universe is, for example, with everyone still marrying the same people and having the same offspring with the same names who all happen to have the same jobs on the same starship... oh, wait...

DOH!

 

[ClayHefner]

The O.C. (Original Canon) had one purpose only- to make DS9 happen. It's not needed any more.

But do you really think JJ Abrams will be ready to limit himself by keeping with the "Alternate Timeline" thingy?
"Oh no we can't do that! It would totally contradict Enterprise".
Delta Vega and Engineering is a strong indicator he won't be.

 

[nx1701g]

I know that the novelization is not canon (but I checked and this is in the film as well):

Vulcan Computer: What is the central assumption of quantum cosmology?
Spock: Everything that can happen does happen in equal and parallel universes.

The discussion on the bridge about new timelines running concurrently.

They both exist.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Re:

[There is no prime timeline anymore]
.....and I'm cheesed off about it.

Oh well.

I suppose that in a few years' time if someone wanted to make another Star Trek that takes place in the Prime timeline, there is nothing stopping them from simply ignoring this film (and its potential sequels) and just doing what they want.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Well, the real problem is Kirk changed our timeline when he came back to 1986 to get them friggin' whales. Thats why there were no Eugenics Wars and, um, stuff...

Seriously though, it makes more sense that this new timeline is an alternate one similar to the Mirror Universe. Like another poster said, if Nero had changed the "prime" timeline, then the future with Spock entering the blackhole would have changed dramatically. He wouldn't be there to enter the blackhole.

If the producers, director, ect wanted the prime timeline to change, then they fudged up the "Spock going into the hole" segment of the movie.

 

[Photoman15]

IIRC, Nero and Spock entered the Black hole at the same time (well, Spock following Nero). Nero got dumped out 25 years earlier than Spock did, so Spock was in the temporal wake and protected from timeline changes.

 

[Omega_Glory]

Didn't look like there was any wake involved.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Didn't look like there was any wake involved.

That's unfortunate. Spock deserves a good wake.

(Imagines bunch of star trek characters getting sloshed and toasting Spock.)

 

[Cyke101]

The Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Read it. You don't need to understand all of it, but here is the main bit -

Time travel

The many-worlds interpretation could be one possible way to resolve the paradoxes that one would expect to arise if time travel turns out to be permitted by physics (permitting closed timelike curves and thus violating causality). Entering the past would itself be a quantum event causing branching, and therefore the timeline accessed by the time traveller simply would be another timeline of many. In that sense, it would make the Novikov self-consistency principle unnecessary.

Really, what this forum needs is the above stickied in a FAQ at the top with "Before you whinge about the timeline being altered or destroyed or some other nonsense, read this!"

Ah yes. Because some scientist comes up with a theory (as apposed to unprovable fact), everyone is supposed to suck up what they are told "just because".

Well, that and Star Trek Online and the novels will continue the prime timeline.

 

[Ovation]

The Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Read it. You don't need to understand all of it, but here is the main bit -

Really, what this forum needs is the above stickied in a FAQ at the top with "Before you whinge about the timeline being altered or destroyed or some other nonsense, read this!"

Ah yes. Because some scientist comes up with a theory (as apposed to unprovable fact), everyone is supposed to suck up what they are told "just because".

Well, that and Star Trek Online and the novels will continue the prime timeline.

Beyond that, what the creators of a particular piece of storytelling (theatre, film, literature) are ON RECORD as saying trumps whatever personal "vision" one may have as far as explanations go (of course, not all authors are on record about their intentions, but in this case, they are). Since the authors CLEARLY stated what kind of time-travel mechanism they employed in their story--the viewers just have to "suck it up".

 

[Captain Mike]

It's almost like you're deliberately choosing to believe in a version of events that will piss you off for the sole purpose of giving you a reason to feel pissed off and not enjoy the movie.

Exactly. Many people go through life like this. How sad for them.

**AHHEEMM** Then when Matrty McCfly returned ti his "proper" timeline then Doc Brown should have stayed dead?

 

[BrownShatner]

Thread title should be "There is no prime timeline anymore, after Nemesis bombed at the box-office."

 

[VonHelton]

Someone asked in another thread about why Nimoy Spock didn't go back to his timeline at the end of the picture. I don't think there is anything for him to go back to. If Nero changed history then he changed history. I don't buy all this guff from Bob Orci that the prime timeline still exists alongside the new one. If that were the case then in the City on the Edge of Forever Kirk and Spock need not have gone back after McCoy since their universe was still out there somewhere.

The fact is that Nero travelling back did not cause a divergence. It caused everything to be rewritten full stop. Those who are told by the gushers that the TOS "prime" universe is still chugging along on its own are not being entirely truthful. Fact is that the only way to restore the timeline is for Nero to be stopped "back in the future" before he gets caught in the black hole. If that doesn't happen then Picard, Sisko & Co as we know them has quite simply been earsed from existance. It's not a parallel universe situation at all...

.....and I'm cheesed off about it.

Correctamundo!

.....And even "new" Spock said so!

"Our lives have been irrevocably changed forever!"

Old Trek is DEAD AS A DOORNAIL.

 

[Captain Pike]

:head-desk:

 

[CapnCrunch]

I posted this in another thread:

Re: Timelines, reality,star trek, canon, and the Truth!
I've made peace with this movie. Here's why:

This movie and the events in it require that TOS, TNS, DS9 etc. happen in order for this movie to be possible.

Did Abrams obliterate the original timeline? Hardly. Take "The Search for Spock". The climactic scene takes place on Vulcan 20 years after TOS. Vulcan gets destroyed in XI. I don't see this as a contradiction at all. SFS had to happen in order to restore Spock to his former self so that he could live on Romulus in TNG and help the Romulans fix their sun which takes us to this movie. XI and all events afterwards would not make sense without all of the events in the "Prime" timeline. I don't see this as obliterating canon it's an EXPANSION of the canon. Nothing has been erased.

When I watch past episodes of Star Trek or the movies I'm not going to think "well, that can't happen now because x,y,z changed in Abrams world". Nope, all of it exists and all of it MUST exist for the "new" timeline to occur. I look at it as multidimensional continuity. Yes, it's going to get more complex now, but I'm OK with it.

 

[David cgc]

There is no prime timeline anymore

"J.J., where are the spin-offs? Picard, Sisko, Janeway...?"
"In the prime timeline..."
"There is no prime timeline!"
"Don't you think I know that?! There was... but not anymore!"



I'm amazed no one did that yet.

 

[Captain Pike]

I posted this in another thread:

Re: Timelines, reality,star trek, canon, and the Truth!
I've made peace with this movie. Here's why:

This movie and the events in it require that TOS, TNS, DS9 etc. happen in order for this movie to be possible.

Did Abrams obliterate the original timeline? Hardly. Take "The Search for Spock". The climactic scene takes place on Vulcan 20 years after TOS. Vulcan gets destroyed in XI. I don't see this as a contradiction at all. SFS had to happen in order to restore Spock to his former self so that he could live on Romulus in TNG and help the Romulans fix their sun which takes us to this movie. XI and all events afterwards would not make sense without all of the events in the "Prime" timeline. I don't see this as obliterating canon it's an EXPANSION of the canon. Nothing has been erased.

When I watch past episodes of Star Trek or the movies I'm not going to think "well, that can't happen now because x,y,z changed in Abrams world". Nope, all of it exists and all of it MUST exist for the "new" timeline to occur. I look at it as multidimensional continuity. Yes, it's going to get more complex now, but I'm OK with it.

Precisely.

 

[thew40]

Why do you have to patronise me because I want to still follow a universe I have followed for 30 years?

Forty years.

I don't believe in the multiverse theory. One universe, one time line. If it should ever get altered, it's altered. Most likely time travel cannot be done, or we'd see people from the future popping up every once in a while (unless our "times" are not very significant).

Does this mean you don't acknowledge the Mirror Universe?


Ugh, this is why I don't post in Star Trek forums that much.

Can't people just accept that this is just another universe and Nero and Spock accidentally went to? I felt as though it was left up to interpretation.

 

[Semah]

The Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Read it. You don't need to understand all of it, but here is the main bit -

Time travel

The many-worlds interpretation could be one possible way to resolve the paradoxes that one would expect to arise if time travel turns out to be permitted by physics (permitting closed timelike curves and thus violating causality). Entering the past would itself be a quantum event causing branching, and therefore the timeline accessed by the time traveller simply would be another timeline of many. In that sense, it would make the Novikov self-consistency principle unnecessary.

Really, what this forum needs is the above stickied in a FAQ at the top with "Before you whinge about the timeline being altered or destroyed or some other nonsense, read this!"

Ah yes. Because some scientist comes up with a theory (as apposed to unprovable fact), everyone is supposed to suck up what they are told "just because".

I think you're a little confused as to what a theory is and how it comes to be.

 

[Captain Mike]

It's almost like you're deliberately choosing to believe in a version of events that will piss you off for the sole purpose of giving you a reason to feel pissed off and not enjoy the movie.

Exactly. Many people go through life like this. How sad for them.

**AHHEEMM** Then when Matrty McCfly returned ti his "proper" timeline then Doc Brown should have stayed dead?

How MUCH it is easier to believe and ignore in another "franchise"...