There is no prime timeline anymore

[ST-One]

'Let's get this over with, before my head-ache gets any worse.'
- Captain Kathryn Janeway

 

[Dac]

The Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Read it. You don't need to understand all of it, but here is the main bit -

Time travel

The many-worlds interpretation could be one possible way to resolve the paradoxes that one would expect to arise if time travel turns out to be permitted by physics (permitting closed timelike curves and thus violating causality). Entering the past would itself be a quantum event causing branching, and therefore the timeline accessed by the time traveller simply would be another timeline of many. In that sense, it would make the Novikov self-consistency principle unnecessary.

Really, what this forum needs is the above stickied in a FAQ at the top with "Before you whinge about the timeline being altered or destroyed or some other nonsense, read this!"

Ah yes. Because some scientist comes up with a theory (as apposed to unprovable fact), everyone is supposed to suck up what they are told "just because".

Hahaha, practically ALL of Science is just theory if you dig down deep enough. Do you believe Gravity is just god pushing us all down on this planet which is at the center of the universe? The fact that these scientists take time to figure answers out, and explain away all the supposed flaws is what gives them credibility. Logic is what dictates scientific theory, and if it makes sense, chances are it could be right until we find a way to test it.

 

[Lonemagpie]

The movie itself clearly addresses this question. AFTER Nero went into the past through the black hole, the original timeline still existed. Ambassador Spock was still in it. We saw it on the screen.

The black hole acted as a doorway between the two timelines, allowing Nero and Spock both to go through at different times. Both timelines were ACTUALLY SHOWN TO EXIST after Nero went through, but before Spock went through.

This isn't a philosophical debate where everyone's entitled to their opinion. The original timeline DID STILL EXIST after Nero went through the black hole. It was shown on the movie screen. You saw it yourself. That is a fact.
...

Fact: After Nero went into the past and attacked the U.S.S. Kelvin, creating the new timeline with his arrival, Spock was still in his ship in the original timeline, and had not yet entered the black hole. Scenes of the original timeline still existing were shown AFTER Nero went into the past but BEFORE Spock went into the past. Obviously, Nero's time travel did not erase the original timeline, or else Ambassador Spock would not have existed to follow him back.

What if somehow Spock had been able to avoid entering the black hole? He would have seen Nero enter, and never heard from him again. Spock's original timeline was still there, whether he followed Nero back or not.

...

It is a foolish debate whether the original timeline still existed after Nero went into the past, since both Spock and everyone watching the movie saw the original timeline still existing AFTER Nero entered the black hole.

Yep, case closed.

 

[TrekGuide.com]

I don't believe in the multiverse theory. One universe, one time line. If it should ever get altered, it's altered. Most likely time travel cannot be done, or we'd see people from the future popping up every once in a while (unless our "times" are not very significant).

Well, I don't believe in warp drive, Klingons, or transporters.

But what do our personal beliefs have to do with the fictional stories depicted in "Star Trek"?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

If that doesn't happen then Picard, Sisko & Co as we know them has quite simply been earsed from existance. It's not a parallel universe situation at all... .

Why would Picard and Sisko be erased? Earth didn't blow up. There's no reason to think that Picard's ancestors living in a wine growing area of France wouldn't meet and marry the same people they did in old timeline. Same for Sisko's ancestors.. and certainly the prophets could still have chosen Sisko's father as the mate of one of them.

 

[Phily B]

The writers have gotten around it all by playing the destiny card. DS9/TNG still happens, just might be a bit differently.

 

[CaptainHarlock]

* TNG, DS9, Voyager are gone. It´s a new beginning.

 

[Davros]

It's not like this movie was cannon.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's not a parallel universe situation at all...

.....and I'm cheesed off about it.

Sucks to have to feel that way. I hope you feel better later.

 

[sunbari1]

It's not like this movie was cannon.

That's ridiculous! If it's on-screen it's canon. That would be like saying that anything that happened in the Mirror Universe wasn't canon.

 

[ezri_fan]

On the bridge of the nu-Enterprise when all this is being discussed, one of the characters uses the words "alternate timeline" or something similar -- that's good enough for me. The old one is still there.

 

[Shim]

It's not like this movie was cannon.

Like it (I do) or not, canon is what Paramount says it is.

 

[Ayelbourne]

Firstly, the novels, with respect, do not compare to seeing Trek on screen and it is the Trek in screen that I am a fan of. I like the visual elements of it and the living, breathing versions of the characters too much for me to get that out of a book

Well, that's entirely up to you. I was just pointing out an alternative.

especially when I am frequently reminded that the novels aren't canon.

Canon is what's on screen. Since there won't be any new old timeline stuff on screen anymore, the term "Canon" becomes meaningless concerning new material about the old timeline. So you could just as well pretend, that the post-Nemesis era happens the way it happens in the books. There's some really intriguing stuff in there.

To me the books continue the old timeline, while the movies and hopefully a new TV show at some point continue this alternate timeline.

And secondly, do you know how much of a fanboy you sound using the word "frak"? Jesus, if you want to say fuck then just say it!!

I don't want to say fuck. I want to say frak. Deal with it.

I really don't give a frak whether other people think of me as a fanboy or something. I like the sound of it, so I use it. Plain and simple.
Besides, Frak has been used in quite a lot TV shows now. It's becoming pretty common.

 

[Theodore Jay Miller]

I gave a mixed review of the movie and this didn't form part of it. I was just thinking about it and how I keep hearing that the two timelines co-exist. But, loically speaking, there isn't a way they could if you look back on previous Trek stories.

Actually, if you look at the TNG episode "Parallels", they can co-exist. "Parallels" established that large numbers of very similar universes exist. There are lots of universes where everything we saw in TOS/TNG/etc. happened. Therefore, even if one particular universe was actually altered by time travel, others of those universes still exist. In those universes Nero and Spock didn't go back in time, or died in the black hole, or whatever, and all the events from TOS/TNG/etc. still happened in those universes just as we saw them.

 

[seigezunt]

As long as somebody can make money off of it, there will be a way for the original timeline to exist.

 

[ST-One]

It's not like this movie was cannon.

Well, so long as it's part of the canon...

 

[jhouston6]

The timeline has to exist otherwise Spock is no longer or his memories would be altered but spock remembers the original reality. Now, in TCONEOF kirk and spock were protected from the changes by the planet. This didn't happen here. Of course, Nero could have used a few lessons from Annorax about changing history

Someone asked in another thread about why Nimoy Spock didn't go back to his timeline at the end of the picture. I don't think there is anything for him to go back to. If Nero changed history then he changed history. I don't buy all this guff from Bob Orci that the prime timeline still exists alongside the new one. If that were the case then in the City on the Edge of Forever Kirk and Spock need not have gone back after McCoy since their universe was still out there somewhere.

The fact is that Nero travelling back did not cause a divergence. It caused everything to be rewritten full stop. Those who are told by the gushers that the TOS "prime" universe is still chugging along on its own are not being entirely truthful. Fact is that the only way to restore the timeline is for Nero to be stopped "back in the future" before he gets caught in the black hole. If that doesn't happen then Picard, Sisko & Co as we know them has quite simply been earsed from existance. It's not a parallel universe situation at all...

.....and I'm cheesed off about it.

 

[urbandk]

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

 

[Mr Awe]

To the OP, what is about parallel that you don't understand?! This is not something to worry about.

Mr Awe

 

[Aragorn]

If that doesn't happen then Picard, Sisko & Co as we know them has quite simply been earsed from existance. It's not a parallel universe situation at all... .

Why would Picard and Sisko be erased? Earth didn't blow up. There's no reason to think that Picard's ancestors living in a wine growing area of France wouldn't meet and marry the same people they did in old timeline. Same for Sisko's ancestors.. and certainly the prophets could still have chosen Sisko's father as the mate of one of them.

As Star Trek has shown, parallel universes have nothing in common with other universes they're parallel to. Just look at how different the mirror universe is, for example, with everyone still marrying the same people and having the same offspring with the same names who all happen to have the same jobs on the same starship... oh, wait...