There will be no paradox... Only if you never return from the future
Theory: The timeline of TNG after "Yesterday's Enterprise" isn't the same as before that episode
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
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Just because the Writers' Guide describes the Klingons as allies and partners and establishes that was the creators intention, that does not make it true in the fictional universe of Star Trek. A canonical statement that the Klingons were allies and not Federation members would be needed for that. Instead there is Wesley's canonical statement that the Klingons joined the Federation.
i always interpreted that as meaning that some Klingons joined the Federation and others didn't.
In 221 BC, Qin Shi Huang,having conquered the other states in China, proclaimed the Chinese Empire. And it is often assumed that China remained a unified empire until the revolution in 1911-1912.
But major Chinese dynasties often fell during widespread insurrection, collapse of law and order, and civil war. The fall of a major dynasty was often followed by years, decades, or centuries of civil wars, and often millions of Chinese died in those civil wars until one Chinese state conquered all the other states and reunited China and began a new major dynasty.
As I remember, I once calculated that China was actually united for only about two thirds of the time between Qin Shi Huang in 221 BC and the revolution in 1911-1912. In the other third or so of the time there would be two or more Chinese states claiming to be the Chinese empire and the rightful government of all China and maybe a bunch of other states claiming to be kingdoms and other lesser realms.
And the same goes for the Roman Empire. I think that for most of the 1,488 years from 27 BC to AD 1461 there was more than one state with separate administrations claiming to be the Roman Empire. There were so many different Roman empires at various times I can't count them all.
But during the mere 16 years from 1355 to 1371, there were simultaneously eight separate states, with separate capital cities, administrations, and armed forces, claiming to be Roman Empires. In Asia there was the so called "Empire of Trebizond", and in Southeastern Europe the so called "Byzantine Empire" with the best claim to be the continuation of the genuine original Roman Empire, and two rival states whose monarchs used the title of "Emperor of the Serbs and the Romans, and two rival states whose rulers used the title of "Emperor of the Bulgarians and the Romans", and a number of remaining fiefs of the so called "Latin Empire of Constantinople" whose exiled monarch used the title of "Emperor of Romania (Roman Land)", and in Western Europe there was the Holy Roman Empire with Charles IV as "Emperor of the Romans".
Don't assume that there were exactly eight emperors at a time in those eight empires from 1355 to 1371. There might have been, but in some of those states co emperors were a common feature so there could have been more than one emperor at a time in some of those states part of the time between 1355 and 1371.
The settlers in the Dutch colony in South Africa developed into a new ethic group. When the British took over the Cape Colony many of those Afrikaners were dissatisfied and left to make new homes, and found new independent states, outside of British territory.
A Wikipedia article lists 18 of those late 18th century, 19th century and early 20th century Boer Republics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_Republics
The two most famous and longest lasting were the Orange Free State and the Transvaal or South African Republic, but there were times when there were more than two Boer Republics at the same time - five between 1854 and 1858, and five again in 1882 and 1883, for example.
As a citizen of the USA, I note that Americans have settled and ruled a few other independent states beside the USA, including Vermont, Texas, California, and Hawaii.
So these examples show that an ethic group can have several separate independent states at the same time.
So I always assumed that there were several different Klingon realms at any one time, and that Wesley was correct that one group of them joined the Federation, while other groups, like the powerful Klingon Imperial Empire, did not.
However, the theory that "Yesterday's Enterprise" resulted in a change in the timeline and Klingons now becoming allies and not members of the Federation is a possible explanation of apparent changes in Federation-Klingon relations.
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And if we stick to pure canon (and not perhaps a lone writer’s background intent/mistake), then Occam’s Razor demands that we don’t generate reams of speculation for what can easily be explained as an imprecise word choice that is totally irrelevant to the question and Picard’s story, and which he wouldn’t bother to correct because everyone in the Federation knows better. Simply ask yourself if you would stand behind such speculation in the real world without further evidence, or if you’d be careful enough to wait for something more solid than a conversation to pass the time (which is unlikely to appear in the canon because of the way it developed later on).
My pet theory has always been that TNG as we know it is the altered timeline, while the war timeline was the original, unaltered timeline that followed a natural course from the 'more militaristic' original series movies. Sending the Enterprise-C back in time changes history to the one we know, it doesn't 'restore' it to a previous state.
That is what's somewhat implied by the episode. That the "prime" timeline was actually the one with the war and that it was only the actions shown in YE that enable the timeline we see throughout the rest of the series.
Though I prefer to think that we've been watching Track B the whole time, then the E-C shows up from Track A, and when it travels through the rift again it ends up in Track C.
Though I prefer to think that we've been watching Track B the whole time, then the E-C shows up from Track A, and when it travels through the rift again it ends up in Track C.
Because it's her feeling that an alternative timeline where the Enterprise is "a ship of peace" and the Federation are not losing badly in a war with Klingons is going to be better than one where both of those things are true?
The scene where she and Picard debate it is fascinating. Yes, Guinan fights strongly for sending them back. But Picard raises good points, about 'this timeline' not necessarily being any more wrong than the other, and the episode let's us pretty much decide. It's interesting.
The Klingons have never, in any timeline we have ever seen, been actual members of the Federation.
Actually i would really like to see a good theory about this
Gary wasn't a god... he wasn't infallible, and he forgot.
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That could mean anything. It certainly doesn't prove that the Klingons are Federation members.
I'm not on either side, but there is dialogue between Picard and Wesley from "Samaritan Snare"...
He's a kid. He's practically required to.
Like that bit with the Edo, where he says "I'm with Starfleet". Uh, no, he's not. Not yet, anyway.
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So.. In the Kelvin Timeline.. there's a Guinan in a mental instutution saying 'THIS ISNT RIGHT! VULCAN SHOULD BE OKAY.. Etc.. "" Hehe...
Maybe. Maybe not.
It could be that Guinan has never been to (or near) Vulcan, so she could have been too far away to notice the change. She noticed it in YE because she was on the Enterprise and caught right in the middle of it.
And there's this: Unlike in YE, where the existing timeline was altered, ST09 created a brand NEW timeline which branched off (in 2233). The prime timeline continues to exist, unaltered. So Guinan of the Kelvin timeline would be accustomed to it and unaware that anything had happened.
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Different take - it was an already existing physically different alternate universe that always existed, but it did suffer a timeline rewrite of its own due to Nero's crossover and actions.
OR
It has an ending chapter that restores something close to the Prime Universe, with differences made to allow for Disco-repencies, and we just haven't gotten to view that movie/episode yet.
Possible. But unlikely.
If this was the case, why does the story need any time travel at all?
Besides, if Kelvin is a completely different universe, why does Spock Prime recognize Kirk and Scotty on sight?
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