TheGodBen Revisits Star Trek
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"Friends with benefits" is definitely a thing and who knows what things could be like in 300 years. After Kirk is exonerated in "Courtmartial" are we supposed to believe the Enterprise immediately departed Starbase? No, even Areel Shaw's words imply some time passes before the Enterprise departs. Who is to say how Kirk celebrated being exonerated?
After Kirk regains his youth in "The Deadly Years" and the Enterprise escapes the Romulans who is to say what happened between Kirk and Janet Wallace?
After Kirk regains his youth in "The Deadly Years" and the Enterprise escapes the Romulans who is to say what happened between Kirk and Janet Wallace?
One has to wonder why Shaw would feel the need to kiss Kirk on his own bridge after an unspecified amount of time had elapsed while the Enterprise had gotten fully repaired and become ready to depart. In my opinion, it suggests that they had been more intimate in the interim and that the parameters of their relationship had returned to the public displays of affection stage. YMMV.
I figured it was because they were a major item four years, seven months and an odd number of days before meeting again (not that she was counting). You can see from how they relate to each other that it was serious, but they also weren't mooning over each other like Kirk was over Ruth. Anyways, Kirk was about to warp out of orbit and they had a lovely history, so why not kiss the guy? I'm not saying they couldn't have just come back from his quarters, I just never got that impression. I mean, why go from his bed to the bridge and then have her walk back to the transporter by herself? Have the exchange in the corridor or the transporter room. And really, I never liked this conclusion. There were other, more private places to say goodbye (the turbolift for example). It was just there for a cute bit and weird Zombie Bones moment.
However, seeing how few romantic enganglements he had in the first season, I don't wanna begruge the man his one legit opportunity.
Yeah, same here.
I’m sure there were, but I’m also just as sure there was plenty of official business to get done after Finney was taken into custody. It wasn’t like “well, I saved the ship, i guess I have time for a quickie...“
I’m funnin’ but there's really nothing there but the undefined passage of time and a sweet kiss. Maybe the staff had other ideas but I never caught it.
I’m funnin’ but there's really nothing there but the undefined passage of time and a sweet kiss. Maybe the staff had other ideas but I never caught it.
Well, I think it's very clear that the "Court Martial" situation is much less solid and more open to multiple interpretations than the "Bread and Circuses" example or, say, the "Wink of an Eye" example yet to come.
By the way, while we're articulating the symbols used to indicate that sex has happened (lamp burning down accompanied by very suggestive dialog, boots being put on, pregnant wife, etc.), what exactly is the clue that sex occurred between Elaan and Kirk?
By the way, while we're articulating the symbols used to indicate that sex has happened (lamp burning down accompanied by very suggestive dialog, boots being put on, pregnant wife, etc.), what exactly is the clue that sex occurred between Elaan and Kirk?
I don't remember Kirk having sex with Elaan, what was the scene that indicated this?
Regarding Kirk possibly having sex with Janet Wallace or Areel Shaw, I never thought for a moment that he did, especially not on his own ship.
This is for two reasons:
First, I didn't think ex's always automatically jump into bed together whenever their lives happen to cross, even if they're both availible.
Second, it would be pretty unprofessional for Kirk to be bedding women in his quarters on his own ship, his crew would damn well know what's going on.
Shaw alluded to this when she asked Kirk if it would be too disruptive if they kissed on the bridge. Yes, the kiss was where the crew could see, but as I say, they would know if Kirk had been kanoodling with her out of sight in his cabin.
In "wink of an Eye", I forget the circumstances of Kirk having sex with Deela but the situation was such that his crew was not in a position to see or know.
In Elaan of Troyius", if Kirk had sex with Elaan, he was under the influence of her tears.
Robert
Regarding Kirk possibly having sex with Janet Wallace or Areel Shaw, I never thought for a moment that he did, especially not on his own ship.
This is for two reasons:
First, I didn't think ex's always automatically jump into bed together whenever their lives happen to cross, even if they're both availible.
Second, it would be pretty unprofessional for Kirk to be bedding women in his quarters on his own ship, his crew would damn well know what's going on.
Shaw alluded to this when she asked Kirk if it would be too disruptive if they kissed on the bridge. Yes, the kiss was where the crew could see, but as I say, they would know if Kirk had been kanoodling with her out of sight in his cabin.
In "wink of an Eye", I forget the circumstances of Kirk having sex with Deela but the situation was such that his crew was not in a position to see or know.
In Elaan of Troyius", if Kirk had sex with Elaan, he was under the influence of her tears.
Robert
The one in "Bread and Circuses" is pretty obvious. You can't miss it. As soon as the camera tilts up from Kirk with the woman in bed and the candles go out, that's all you need to know. Then Merrick telling Kirk that he allowed him to feel like a man. It's all there without actually showing it. Older shows and movies had to get more creative by implying what they couldn't actually show. And they had to use euphemisms to say what they weren't allowed to say.
Same with "Wink of an Eye".
Same with "Wink of an Eye".
After the fact, they cut to Kirk putting one of his boots back on and Deela brushing her hair.
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Kirk had good reason to believe his days, or hours, were numbered. And he had no certainty that something would arise to save his bacon or give him a chance to save himself. Even as it unfolded it was a near thing. If Merrick hadn’t contacted the Enterprise at the last moment and Scotty hadn’t reacted promptly the landing party would have been riddled with bullets.
Even if Drusilla was just being obedient as a slave, she played her part well enough to make it look pretty damned consensual. They made it clear that there were actual employment benefits, so she was doing what she was hired to do. So Kirk has a dance with the Proconsuls whore on the big guy’s dime.
Yeah. Spock said they had old age pensions and whatnot. They were using the S-word, but she was more like a willing employee, and not like a trafficked person.
Yes, she was required to make it look consensual, ordered to do so by her owner. There's no additional cost to Claudius, he owns Drusilla outright.
Here's the excerpt:
KIRK: But if there have been slaves for over 2,000 years, hasn't there always been discontent, runaways?
FLAVIUS: Long ago there were rebellions, but they were suppressed. And with each century, the slaves acquired more rights under the law. They received rights to medicine, the right to government payments in their old age, and they slowly learned to be content.
SPOCK: Even more fascinating. Slavery evolving into an institution with guaranteed medical payments, old-age pensions.
FLAVIUS: Long ago there were rebellions, but they were suppressed. And with each century, the slaves acquired more rights under the law. They received rights to medicine, the right to government payments in their old age, and they slowly learned to be content.
SPOCK: Even more fascinating. Slavery evolving into an institution with guaranteed medical payments, old-age pensions.
The slaves have been granted health benefits and support in their old age but all indications are they are still OWNED by their masters and as such cannot refuse commands.
The long and the short of it is: Did Drusilla have the option to refuse sex with Kirk?
She's not an employed sex worker who if she wished could quit her job and do something else - she is OWNED by Claudius, as made very clear in her and Kirk's conversation:
DRUSILLA: I was told to wait for you and provide wine, food, whatever you wish. I am Proconsul's slave Drusilla. Although for this evening. (pause) For this evening I was told I am your slave. Command me.
KIRK: It won't work.
DRUSILLA: What will not work?
KIRK: Whatever he has in mind, whatever tricks. You hear that, Proconsul? It won't work. I'm not co-operating. I may die, but you won't get any entertainment out of it.
DRUSILLA: We're alone. Please believe me. I've never lied to one who owns me.
...
(Later, wine is being poured.)
KIRK: Very good. (he tries a grape) Excellent.
DRUSILLA: I was concerned. I am ordered to please you.
KIRK: It won't work.
DRUSILLA: What will not work?
KIRK: Whatever he has in mind, whatever tricks. You hear that, Proconsul? It won't work. I'm not co-operating. I may die, but you won't get any entertainment out of it.
DRUSILLA: We're alone. Please believe me. I've never lied to one who owns me.
...
(Later, wine is being poured.)
KIRK: Very good. (he tries a grape) Excellent.
DRUSILLA: I was concerned. I am ordered to please you.
While true, it's the start of a slippery slope to be able to justify just about any action that way.
So much for our hero, I guess!
While true, it's the start of a slippery slope to be able to justify just about any action that way.
So much for our hero, I guess!
You're taking a good episode of Star Trek and trying to make it gross.
1) The makers' intent was that Drusilla was a happy house cat. She occupied the highest, most luxurious perch among "slaves" (again, a class of people with legal rights on that planet). She lived in a palace and ate food fit for the Proconsul. She wore couture and had her hair done, and thus was obviously not a laborer. She probably had exciting travel experiences on the Proconsul's helicopter and Rome Force One, landing in exotic cities and staying at four-star hotels. She didn't seem to mind her duties. In a society where some people were hiding in caves, and others were being used as gladiator fodder, she must have considered herself lucky as hell.
2) It was also the makers' intent that she thought Kirk was a babe, and this was her lucky night. This was standard for handsome-hero TV; see also: Robert Conrad, and later Gil Gerard. She wasn't gritting her teeth! He was the star.
3) We don't even know for certain that Kirk took his opportunity with Drusilla. He might have questioned her and sent her away. This is the universe where Kirk's father lived and he was well-raised, after all. This is the Kirk whose moral compass has never gone wrong.
Not at all - I said in an earlier post that I don't believe Kirk would have taken advantage of Drusilla. Indeed, he seemed determined not to play along with Claudius' intentions.You're taking a good episode of Star Trek and trying to make it gross.
However, it seems tough to deny that Drusilla was anything but property, or that she had the power to consent to anything. That is the life and role of a slave.
Nice story. Odd how none of this made it into the episode, yet the continued references to her being a slave and having to obey commands did.
Also, isn't a gilded cage still a cage? I'm sure I heard that on some TV show somewhere...
Of course she wouldn't be gritting her teeth, she would be acting her heart out to appear keen and enthusiastic! And she even explained why:
DRUSILLA: I was concerned. I am ordered to please you.
We also know exactly why she's be concerned, because Claudius will punish her if she disobeys (he says as much to Kirk later)This is more consistent with the character of Kirk as depicted in TOS who, while never turning down a quick snog, has always championed personal freedoms and liberty.
Look, I don't want to derail this thread and I'm not trying to "make this episode gross" - the episode stands and falls on its on merits. However, slavery as an institution IS gross.
And this may just be my opinion, but isn't making excuses for indulging in non consensual sex even more gross?
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