"The Zygon Invasion" Grade and Discussion Thread

[Guy Gardener]

This was about how most Muslims are not Isis, and the Refugee Crisis.

Personally I was wondering about Greece as a final answer to the Zygon Question.

Lease them Greece for a hundred years, by paying every person in Greece a million Euros, a europass (that's an international trainpass)... Of course dividing a 11 billion (Are you feeling lucky punk?) Euros between 11 million people might create it's own economic disastsrer.

 

[DWF]

The point of the New Mexico location is that the town Truth Or Cosequences is a real place and the name works as a slogan for the Zygon movement to come ot of hiding or punish their suppressors... From their point of view.
So the Zygon rebels just demonstrate a sense for irony here.

There really is no other reason for it. If that town happened to be in the UK, then that's where it would have taken place.

The fake country of Tuzmenistan or whatever it was, might have just been called "some middle eastern country" like in 24.

A minor little town in New Mexico and it's doubtful they even filmed there. But then this story was written by the guy who gave us Kill The Moon, I guess it's to be expected.

 

[tomalak301]

The more I think about this episode the more angry I get by it. Maybe it's just something I didn't expect, but there were many issues in this episode that hits way too close to our news cycle and there wasn't much subtlety to it at all, much like other episodes this season. For someone who is losing faith in the series (As I said last week), this episode didn't help. I did like the ending as it set up next week and the whole Evil Clara plot, but it could have been written so much better. Heck, I've been thinking about this today and it felt like this episode had a tone the likes of Torchwood Children of Earth (Only COE was written better) instead of Doctor Who. Maybe another thing I'm having an issue with with the last few seasons is I'm not sure what the series wants to be. Do they want to be a fun series with scary monsters and some comedy like we've had in past Doctor Who's, or does it want to angle closer to Torchwood? This episode felt like an episode of Torchwood, not DW and dare I say the series undergoing a bit of an identity crisis at the moment?

 

[sttngfan1701d]

A couple nitpicks which occurred to me:

-Does Clara have an official position within UNIT? She (or rather the Zygon posing as her) is clearly in command of the soldiers sent to the Zygon base in London. Seems odd to have a schoolteacher placed in command of a military operation. And if she does indeed have official standing within UNIT, just how high is she? Substitute Osgood seems to be Kate's right hand woman, and she was clearly answering to Clara on the mission as well.

I've wondered about this since "Magician's Apprentice." It's not clear, but she appears to be the Doctor's proxy when he's not on Earth (she commanded the snipers and was high enough to be brought in officially by the government during a "crisis"). And when he is on Earth...yeah, like the 2nd-in-command, it seems. The 50th Anniversary also alluded to her being part of UNIT (in her future).

 

[sttngfan1701d]

The point of the New Mexico location is that the town Truth Or Cosequences is a real place and the name works as a slogan for the Zygon movement to come ot of hiding or punish their suppressors... From their point of view.
So the Zygon rebels just demonstrate a sense for irony here.

There really is no other reason for it.

...Except to give them another opportunity to portray the US and Americans in a ridiculous way. As always. But yes, the main reason was to give the terrorists (uh, Zygons) a base of operations that was the namesake of their slogan.

 

[DWF]

The more I think about this episode the more angry I get by it. Maybe it's just something I didn't expect, but there were many issues in this episode that hits way too close to our news cycle and there wasn't much subtlety to it at all, much like other episodes this season. For someone who is losing faith in the series (As I said last week), this episode didn't help. I did like the ending as it set up next week and the whole Evil Clara plot, but it could have been written so much better. Heck, I've been thinking about this today and it felt like this episode had a tone the likes of Torchwood Children of Earth (Only COE was written better) instead of Doctor Who. Maybe another thing I'm having an issue with with the last few seasons is I'm not sure what the series wants to be. Do they want to be a fun series with scary monsters and some comedy like we've had in past Doctor Who's, or does it want to angle closer to Torchwood? This episode felt like an episode of Torchwood, not DW and dare I say the series is going under a bit of an identity crisis at the moment?

For one thing it's not Clara it's a Zygon who merely looks like her, why she's keeping her form is beyond me. And really Moffat's era had a horror feel to it from the beginning, although I think this one misses the mark.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Maybe it's because I'm broken inside, but Not-Clara is 5 times hotter than regular Clara.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Maybe it's because I'm broken inside, but Not-Clara is 5 times hotter than regular Clara.

Love regular Clara (and Jenna too for that matter) but yeah...evil Clara is pretty hot.

 

[tomalak301]

The more I think about this episode the more angry I get by it. Maybe it's just something I didn't expect, but there were many issues in this episode that hits way too close to our news cycle and there wasn't much subtlety to it at all, much like other episodes this season. For someone who is losing faith in the series (As I said last week), this episode didn't help. I did like the ending as it set up next week and the whole Evil Clara plot, but it could have been written so much better. Heck, I've been thinking about this today and it felt like this episode had a tone the likes of Torchwood Children of Earth (Only COE was written better) instead of Doctor Who. Maybe another thing I'm having an issue with with the last few seasons is I'm not sure what the series wants to be. Do they want to be a fun series with scary monsters and some comedy like we've had in past Doctor Who's, or does it want to angle closer to Torchwood? This episode felt like an episode of Torchwood, not DW and dare I say the series is going under a bit of an identity crisis at the moment?

For one thing it's not Clara it's a Zygon who merely looks like her, why she's keeping her form is beyond me. And really Moffat's era had a horror feel to it from the beginning, although I think this one misses the mark.

Wait, that's not what I said. I don't mind the horror aspects and the monsters. What I do mind is how dark a tone this episode was, as in a little leaning towards COE depressing. That's not what Doctor Who is, unless that's where the show is going. I hope not.

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe another thing I'm having an issue with with the last few seasons is I'm not sure what the series wants to be. Do they want to be a fun series with scary monsters and some comedy like we've had in past Doctor Who's, or does it want to angle closer to Torchwood? This episode felt like an episode of Torchwood, not DW and dare I say the series is going under a bit of an identity crisis at the moment?

To be honest, I'm not sure Moffat is 100% sure what he wants to do with the show anymore. No that's not meant to be Moffat bashing. Prior to season 8 he was going on about how he wanted to completely shake everything about the show up, that "getting good at it is the enemy" or some such. And throughout season 8 we see some attempts at being different, though overall things were roughly similar. This year, it seems they are once again trying to find a new angle on doing the show, with it being mostly two-parters but they don't really seem to be doing anything different, story wise.

The 50th Anniversary also alluded to her being part of UNIT (in her future).

It did? I remember we saw Clara on the wall of the Doctor's companions, along with others who certainly weren't with UNIT. And Kate mentioned UNIT had already screened Clara as they do with all the Doctor's companions, but I don't remember it being indicated she was with UNIT or that she would be.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

I moved to New Mexico about a year and a half ago. When they started repeating the phrase of "Truth or Consequences" I thought to myself, "Oy, I guess I've lived here too long. All I can think of now is the city!" And lo and behold, Clara brings up the city and it's history. I know down in British Land the Doctor often visits locations near where viewers live, but this is the first time the plot has centered around a place I could get to in less than a three hour drive. : )

BoJack Horseman ended up going to New Mexico this season, too, as an aside.

As for the episode itself...Something about the central conflict bothered me. It seems like Doctor Who is at it's core an optimistic universe -- the kind where global leaders could announce "Btw, Zygons live with us now" and the world could slowly adapt. England seemed to get comfortable living with ghosts pretty quickly before it turned out they were a Cybermen Invasion. Both the Zygons and the humans come off as overly aggressive, which only leaves us the Doctor and Clara to root for.

It's almost like this episode is too trapped in Who-tropes. When aliens come by it's always an invasion -- especially if it's on Christmas! I almost think this two-parter would be more interesting if it centered on an integration instead of an invasion. Two very different peoples trying to live together in peace has a ton of potential for drama. Heck, they could have the episode done in a documentary style covering the Doctor and his role in leveraging peace -- this could probably have saved on the budget, too.

But that's me playing the "If I had wrote this episode" game.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

There was that line where Kate said Clara had "top level security rating from her last visit" when they were looking at the wall of pictures in the Black Archive. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong. But it certainly seems at this point that she is "activated" during crises and basically serves as the Doctor's proxy on Earth.

 

[Mr Light]

<<but they don't really seem to be doing anything different, story wise.>>

Sure they are! Now the Doctor is kooky and zany and wears sunglasses all the time and plays a guitar!

 

[sttngfan1701d]

At least in this series though, Capaldi's Doctor has a more developed identity. Last year they weren't sure what to make his personality. I don't like the guitar much either, and the sunglasses are lame, but I'm glad that he's finally "bedded in."

 

[JRoss]

Church exterior scene was so stupid my wife actually left and refused to finish the episode. The soldiers in the back absolutely would have shot the "mom" before the rest came out. Totally saw the twists.

So, everyone, remember that immigrants and refugees are evil. At this point I would just order all the Zygons to be exterminated. Remake the nerve gas and start pumping. Sucks for the innocents, but the bad buys ruined it for everyone.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Because this is fiction, thematic irony must always prevail before the third act finishes, so if the soldier believed the shapeshifters, they were shapeshifters, but if the soldiers shot their families it would have been their families.

Personally the road not taken here seemed like the stronger choice to me.

 

[DS9Continuing]

As for the soldiers at the church, I didn't think it was at all clear that they were killed by Zygons. Maybe it was a failure of writing or direction, but the fact that we never saw the attack or heard any screaming, only had the boss lady find piles of tumbleweed and assume they had all been killed, led me to anticipate a double-cross-reveal of some kind. It didn't happen yet, obviously, but it could still next week.

Which would be fitting. After all, the most common theme so far this season is not hybrids or guitars but resurrection. Something appearing to be dead but then coming back to life or turning out to have been alive all along. Davros, the Master, Skaro itself, the sewer Daleks, the various ghosts on the lake base, the Ghost Doctor, the Fisher King, Ashilde, Sam Swift, Osgood.

I assume this will build up to either Clara or Gallifrey or both at the end of the season (don't spoil me, I don't want to know). But it could very well include the UNIT soldiers.

.

 

[Starkers]

Because this is fiction, thematic irony must always prevail before the third act finishes, so if the soldier believed the shapeshifters, they were shapeshifters, but if the soldiers shot their families it would have been their families.

Personally the road not taken here seemed like the stronger choice to me.

That would have been really interesting, and to be honest the Zygons would only have to pull that trick once, after that it wouldn't matter if they were always Zygons because every soldier would have added doubt at the back of their minds.

 

[matthunter]

Maybe it's because I'm broken inside, but Not-Clara is 5 times hotter than regular Clara.

If TV has taught me anything, it's that evil versions of regular female characters are always hotter.

And, sadly, more likely to be lesbians.

 

[Guy Gardener]

No, that's just DS9.

I think that the Camera liked her better.

The camera said, "Woo hoo! New Girl!" and started the character off with a clean slate.

Or... Had Jenna been being hot left handed all this time while personifying Clara?

I'm not Clara! = I'm not left handed!