They don't need to be sturdier. They just need to know about the magic trees protecting them.
"The Zygon Invasion" Grade and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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They don't need to be sturdier. They just need to know about the magic trees protecting them.
Oh god. This episode was all over the place. The Zygon subplot was the weakest aspect of the 50th anniversary, and now those chickens have come home to roost. I wonder how the Doctor plans to handle this fiasco.
Also, what's this nonsense about the Zygons being a "non-violent" race? They've been combative and led invasions on Earth in the past, but somehow now, they are non-violent, because Hybrid Osgood says so? They let 20 million Zygons settle on Earth, and no one thought this was a bad idea?
Also, what's this nonsense about the Zygons being a "non-violent" race? They've been combative and led invasions on Earth in the past, but somehow now, they are non-violent, because Hybrid Osgood says so? They let 20 million Zygons settle on Earth, and no one thought this was a bad idea?
I've never been a fan of the idea that the actions of some members of a race should dictate the behavior off all members of that race.
It would be like saying, to pluck an example totally out of thin air, all Muslims are Terrorists. Which of course, no one would ever do...
To be honest, I found that attitude refreshing. It's more Star Trek than Doctor Who, the idea that aliens are intelligences to be reasoned with, not monsters that must be fought and destroyed. We haven't really seen this idea take root in Doctor Who except in some of the spin-off fiction (where we've had peaceful, reformed Daleks in "Children of the Revolution" or Kroton the Cyberman). I guess the closest the television series has come to this in recent years has been Vastra and Strax. I'd welcome a change in the ethos of the series toward destroying the monsters as a last resort.
Also, on a different note, I got a 1980s War of the Worlds television series vibe from the episode. Shapeshifting aliens launching a secret invasion of Earth? Yup.
Difference is, that the Zygons have never been nice people and have never pretended to be. Earth and other planets (The Power of Three reference of Zygons) are a conquest for them. Making them no different from the Cybermen (from Mondas), Daleks (from Skaro), Slitheen (from Raxacoriaphalpatorias), Sontarans (from Sontar), Klingons (from Kronos), Romulans (from Romulus), Skrull (from Skrullos), Kree (from Hala), Kryptonians (from Krypton) Cylons, Borg etc.
Giving sanctuary to 20 million aliens from a known hostile species, with the weapons to make war on a planet that is technologically inferior, is a mad idea. Pick any of the other races I mentioned and pluck 20 million of them down on their respective planet of conquest. How would that go over you think?
That's true, we haven't in Doctor Who, and I am interested in seeing where they take this. It's just the decisions of the Doctor that led up to this invasion of the Zygons, is what irks me. That and UNIT being staffed by incompetent boobs, still. But you know, I can let that go.
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No.
I had the strong feeling when watching this episode that the writer thought he was communicating a completely different message than he was actually communicating. Obviously he was going for a message of tolerance, but to me what came out was actually one of paranoid xenophobia. And I found it intensely annoying to watch an episode that was being so insufferably smug about the message it thought it was communicating (well, the Doctor in particular), while at the same time so bungling it so badly.
Basically, what I "learned" watching this episode is that coexistence between radically different groups is a pipe dream. A minority can be adapted to the majority to a degree that the majority quite literally has no idea they're even there, but they are still a fifth column waiting to explode. So keep an eye on those Zygons/Muslims. It doesn't matter how indistinguishable from other members of your society they might be. They're still potential sleepers for Zygon ISIS or some stupid shit.
Any possible aesop there might have been here about human intolerance in accepting outsiders and problems humans have in coexisting went out the window with a premise where humans, save for a few Unit folks, quite literally did not know the Zygons were among them.
You don't even have to go back that far for political allegories. in fact you don't even need to go as far back as the classic series. Remember RTD's weapons of mass destruction than can be launched in 45 seconds from Aliens of the London/WW3? Or the Sycorax/Belgrano bit from The Christmas Invasion.
I've actually preferred all the two-part stories to the single episode stories of last season, many of which were terrible. The single-parters just rush to a conclusion with some shouting in the middle and hugging at the end. At least in 2-parters you have time to run up and down corridors.
A peace deal to avoid millions of deaths on both sides is indeed what an advanced species should be about. We're just showing how racist we are because zygons look funny and impersonate people. It's not as if we've never had human villains in Who now is it? Pplus political allegories are what most adult sci fi is about.
What WAS silly though is that UNIT don't seem to have a way to spot zygons easily, which seems unlikely, and surely sending in Lethbridge-Stewart, a high ranking member of UNIT with loads of sensitive intel in her head, alone was a tactical blunder of immensely stupid proportions?
A peace deal to avoid millions of deaths on both sides is indeed what an advanced species should be about. We're just showing how racist we are because zygons look funny and impersonate people. It's not as if we've never had human villains in Who now is it? Pplus political allegories are what most adult sci fi is about.
What WAS silly though is that UNIT don't seem to have a way to spot zygons easily, which seems unlikely, and surely sending in Lethbridge-Stewart, a high ranking member of UNIT with loads of sensitive intel in her head, alone was a tactical blunder of immensely stupid proportions?
I try not to judge two-parters solely on the first part but I'm struggling to believe part two will be any better than last night's garbage. The "general Zygon population = normal Muslims / Zygon insurgents = ISIS" metaphor was ridiculously heavy-handed and seems more like a desperate BBC struggling to boost its "educate and inform" remit because it's scared of a hostile Tory government than anything else.
Science fiction is a great platform for allegory (people have already made comparisons to Trek and classic DW) but I can't take it seriously when it's as on the nose as this. And this sudden political turn means our familiar characters have to change to fit the story, rather than the story fitting the characters.
A story reflecting Islamic fundamentalism would have made a great fifth series of Torchwood but I don't think it belongs in Doctor Who.
Science fiction is a great platform for allegory (people have already made comparisons to Trek and classic DW) but I can't take it seriously when it's as on the nose as this. And this sudden political turn means our familiar characters have to change to fit the story, rather than the story fitting the characters.
A story reflecting Islamic fundamentalism would have made a great fifth series of Torchwood but I don't think it belongs in Doctor Who.
By the 29th century, the stupid humans have probably chopped all those trees down.
Gods...please not CyberBrig.
Earth owes the Zygons NOTHING. The treaty between them is a joke because 1) it was imposed on them by the Doctor (or Doctors) and 2) 99.999% of the human population knows nothing about it. Only Kate Stewart, Osgood and an increasingly small number of Unit members know anything about it. That's why it's such a mess.
The Zygons were never invited to Earth and came here twice to conquer it. It was the war the Doctor's people led that caused the destruction of the Zygon homeworld and it was the Doctor who imposed this treaty on Earth without its consent (sorry, Kate Stewart doesn't count as Earth's representative). If the show is so hell bent on holding the Doctor accountable for his actions, then this is the perfect time to do so.
The Zygons were never invited to Earth and came here twice to conquer it. It was the war the Doctor's people led that caused the destruction of the Zygon homeworld and it was the Doctor who imposed this treaty on Earth without its consent (sorry, Kate Stewart doesn't count as Earth's representative). If the show is so hell bent on holding the Doctor accountable for his actions, then this is the perfect time to do so.
This may be one of my least favorite episodes of all time. It barely made any sense. Frankly, I'm still not sure I understand how the "treaty" was even supposed to work. 20 million Zygons suddenly appear out of nowhere, and Earth is supposed to be completely unaware of it? I feel like we missed a big chunk of the story and were trying to play catch-up without getting enough information. The episode doesn't work for me because I can't believe in the basic premise.
Towards the end it started getting better, once all the nonsensical exposition was out of the way.
And yeah, that scene with the soldiers was possibly one of the stupidest scenes I've ever watched.
I'm kind of starting to feel bad for Capaldi. I have a feeling his incarnation of the Doctor will not be fondly remembered, and it's entirely someone else's fault. His stories are just so poorly written.
Towards the end it started getting better, once all the nonsensical exposition was out of the way.
And yeah, that scene with the soldiers was possibly one of the stupidest scenes I've ever watched.
I'm kind of starting to feel bad for Capaldi. I have a feeling his incarnation of the Doctor will not be fondly remembered, and it's entirely someone else's fault. His stories are just so poorly written.
Well if U.N.I.T. can't be portrayed as incompetent boobs (during the Moffat era), then there would be no story. U.N.I.T. during the 2,3,4,7,9, and 10th eras were more competent and ready to throw down if a fight was called for.
Why anyone would trust a known race of shape shifters, that are known for deception and infiltration is beyond me.
Star Trek did this twice, and with great effect. The throat aliens on TNG season 1, and DS9's changling infiltration measures and countermeasures during the Dominion arc.