Add to that the fact that she had Chakotay as first officer, who didn't have the balls to be a good first officer and put her in her place when she was acting out of control, the way Riker did to Picard several times. I mean really, he didn't exhibit half the initiative of Spock, Riker or Kira in those situations.
The "You Explain It, Thread" Explain it!
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Add to that the fact that she had Chakotay as first officer, who didn't have the balls to be a good first officer and put her in her place when she was acting out of control, the way Riker did to Picard several times. I mean really, he didn't exhibit half the initiative of Spock, Riker or Kira in those situations.
Haven't we made fun of the Natives of America enough? We were the one that screwed them over...not the other way around. They never laid a hand on any settlers inspite of what you see on TV.
Scalps don't scalp themselves.
Actually come to think of it, I believe it was the French who taught them that. Talk about bad influences.
Ok, here's another very good reason why replicated food or objects should be just as good as the originals.
Replicators are based on transporter technology. Transporter technology preceded replicators by over 100 years if I'm not mistaken.
Transporters can scan and re assemble a living person or object in it's entirety .
We have to assume that naturally grown foods are transported by transporter. That means those scanners scanned and then re materialized that food in exactly the original form.
That means replicators can do the exact same thing. If you want natural tasting caviar, you used the same scanned pattern that a transporter uses.
Voila-- real, natural tasting caviar.
Very interesting..I kind of thought Janeway was pretty good--she did get the crew back from the Delta Quadrant. Really Janeway on some threads goes down as the worse captain of them all.
I mean, wouldn't Picard do the same thing in her place? They all worship the Prime Directive in some way...
Replicators are based on transporter technology. Transporter technology preceded replicators by over 100 years if I'm not mistaken.
Transporters can scan and re assemble a living person or object in it's entirety .
We have to assume that naturally grown foods are transported by transporter. That means those scanners scanned and then re materialized that food in exactly the original form.
That means replicators can do the exact same thing. If you want natural tasting caviar, you used the same scanned pattern that a transporter uses.
Voila-- real, natural tasting caviar.
Very interesting..I kind of thought Janeway was pretty good--she did get the crew back from the Delta Quadrant. Really Janeway on some threads goes down as the worse captain of them all.
I mean, wouldn't Picard do the same thing in her place? They all worship the Prime Directive in some way...
The whole 'replicated food tastes not as good as the 'real thing'' was always kind off useless and isolated to a few characters who supposedly were able to tell the difference, but it was mostly described as such in situations where those characters 'missed' the associated foods as they were prepared by their families and/or loved ones.
In fact, if I recall correctly, throughout TNG, it was stated that replicated food is essentially identical in taste to the 'real deal'.
In fact, if I recall correctly, throughout TNG, it was stated that replicated food is essentially identical in taste to the 'real deal'.
But the transporter just (usually) moves an real object from point A, to point B. It doesn't "make" anything.
The replicator might have a pattern to go by, but it doesn't have an actual tomato to move from a storage compartment to your breakfast plate. The tomato is a interpretation, of a tomato.
Nightdiamond, if you order roasted pumpkin seeds (just ate the last of mine), the replicator would materialize some on a plate for you, if you order un-roasted fresh seeds, and planted them, nothing would grow over five months. Because they aren't really pumpkin seeds, they just look and hopefully taste somewhat like pumpkin seeds.
As a food item, they don't have to be genetically reproducing, down to the subatomic level, seeds. The "bone" in your replicated porterhouse steak was never part of the spinal column of a living cow.
That was Riker talking to a alien ambassador in season one, but in the same conversation, Riker said that "we" don't eat animals anymore. Which we know to be false.
Riker pretty obviously didn't like the ambassador, and i think was just flipping him shit for that reason
That would be Archer, but to be fair Archer had the least amount of training for his position.
No, Picard and Janeway were very different people. According to the established timeline, Picard possessed vastly more experience that Janeway. Janeway prior to assuming command of the Voyager was a science officer. Voyager would seem to have been her first command.
Strict interpretation of the PD, while they could use the caretakers array to return to the alpha quad, they could not destroy it in order to effect the technological and power balance of the delta quad. Starfleet (Janeway) should have taken no position, one way or the other, on the Kazon assuming control of the array.
First season TNG Picard likely would have let them do it.
You have to realize that continuity in a TV show is a relatively new concept. In fact, TNG was probably one of the first shows where fans demanded it simply because they examined every aspect of the show unlike any other series that came before. Writers only thought of the episode they were working on, not an overall mythology of the series. Even in shows where they pay close attention to mythology (like Lost), there are mistakes made because it's impossible to keep track of everything.
A lot of times on Trek, a cool concept was thought of like a tricorder and was put into use without any clue as to how the thing worked. Since this was technology from centuries in the future, it stands to reason that it's beyond us currently, but at some point someone will figure out how to make it work. Just look at the technology we have today that was considered science fiction (and sometimes used in Trek) in the '60's (like the iPad or even cell phones). Other times, fictional technology was created to save money, like the transporter. It was easier and cheaper to just have the actors disappear with some sparkly effect than to film a model of a shuttle for every episode.
A lot of times on Trek, a cool concept was thought of like a tricorder and was put into use without any clue as to how the thing worked. Since this was technology from centuries in the future, it stands to reason that it's beyond us currently, but at some point someone will figure out how to make it work. Just look at the technology we have today that was considered science fiction (and sometimes used in Trek) in the '60's (like the iPad or even cell phones). Other times, fictional technology was created to save money, like the transporter. It was easier and cheaper to just have the actors disappear with some sparkly effect than to film a model of a shuttle for every episode.
I would say that you might be in error.
A transporter has to keep a pattern of the object it transports.
When it comes to living things, such as animals, humans, species, etc... the pattern buffer doesn't keep a copy of anything since that would in effect result in a duplicate of an individual (which the transporter is capable of doing).
In terms of replicators, it's easy to scan the molecular structure of a tomato, a fruit in general, vegetables or a separate portion of meat.
How?
Because the computer only needs a molecular composition of it to make it, which can either be gained from inputting the pre-existing information into the computer, or simply running it through the transporter and storing a copy of the pattern.
The replicator recreates the molecular structure of the object you are eating.
In this case a seed. It stands to reason it will reproduce the genetic makeup of it, and grow if planted correctly.
I think there have been examples of replicated seeds used in farming.
Actually...
If I recall correctly, Riker was stating that they don't have to kill living animals to consume meat anymore. Not that they don't eat animals or meat at all.
As far as I can remember, no human in Trek (at least not the ones in the Federation) were shown to hunt living animals for food. In fact, I think that may be illegal in the first place and completely unnecessary since they can not only get it from replicators, but before the invention of the said tech, they likely got meat from other sources such as genetic manipulation and growth of specific parts of animals and not the whole thing.
Besides, on a detailed level he was accurate. They don't really eat animals anymore. The computer was pre-programmed with a molecular structure of variety of meats available in the Federation database and is able to recreate them.
The meat may be the one of an animal, but an animal as such didn't have to die for the meat portion to be made/consumed.
Irrelevant. Riker probably didn't lie to the ambassador.
Besides, if you are so open to consider the premise that Riker was indeed lying (even though he had no reason to - especially since he said it to the ambassador BEFORE completely making up his mind that he didn't like him).
And what was Picard's command prior to the Enterprise-D again?
Picard is also very likely older than Janeway, and Kahtryn had Voyager as a 'first command'.
Besides, Picard also managed to bend the PD just as Janeway did on several occasions.
Janeway on the other hand had more leeway and under the circumstances (0 backup - as opposed to Picard who had an access to a Starbase and a whole fleet), I think her decisions were exemplary.
Strict interpretation of the PD, while they could use the caretakers array to return to the alpha quad, they could not destroy it in order to effect the technological and power balance of the delta quad. Starfleet (Janeway) should have taken no position, one way or the other, on the Kazon assuming control of the array.
First season TNG Picard likely would have let them do it.
Unlikely.
The PD was about non-interference policy. Plus, more often than not, it was also about preventing creation of an imbalance of power.
What do you think the Kazon would have done with the caretaker array had it went into their hands?
Numerous possibilities to consider, but also when you take into account their aggressiveness, one has to keep in mind the very likely prospect that they would probably not use it for anything remotely 'good' (apart from that one sect gaining superiority over others and spreading their influence in that part of the quadrant).
People keep talking about timers as an option for the array to be destroyed and still bring Voyager home.
Things to keep in mind:
The first displacement wave badly crippled Voyager by bringing it to the DQ, so we don't know if the ship would even survive the transition.
Timers could have been damaged by Kazon boarding parties and effectively prevent the destruction of the Array in the long run.
Leaving only 1 person to sacrifice themselves for the good of the many might have been an objective worth exploring, however, we are back at the prospect of the Kazon boarding parties could have easily overpowered that individual and again prevent the destruction of the installation.
The only viable course of action that would have resulted in making sure the Array was destroyed, was to strand the ship in the DQ.
It was that or trade the lives of the Ocampa (among possible countless others in the quadrant - and with perhaps enough time, galaxy itself).
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If you can show us an episode where a character from Trek is saying that, that will blow the lid off debates like this.
Dilithium crystals supposedly can't be replicated, so they must be mined. Months of hard sweaty, mining.
After they are mined, I'll assumed they're transported to a ship with a transporter. The transporter takes a near perfect scan of them and them reassembles them perfectly .
If that's true, then that's proof that dilithium crystals can be easily replicated.
Transporter tech is actually older than replicator tech by 100 years or so.
If it can be transported, it can be replicated! Unless someone can explain why not.
That's quite true, but the Universal Translator? That's going to be a hard one to get around. I've GOT to know how this could possibly work.
I'll admit Janeway did some crazy things like put her crew at risk several times, like raiding a Borg vessel for spare parts.
But I think the array thing was a tough call...either do the right thing, and lose lots of sleep later, or do the RIGHT thing, and still lose lots of sleep later.
SO basically people are saying the Kazon/Caretaker/Ocampa situation was none of their business and she should have just left?
If this were true, then anyone who went into the transporter could be duplicated. Data could be duplicated without all the trouble that was gone through in The Measure Of A Man and The Offspring.
This is not so, ergo we know your proposition there to be false.
I can think of reasons why this must be so, but to fully justify them would require actually inventing a transporter! However, I'll give the gist of my thinking, which I believe is in agreement in the broad strokes with what has been shown on the show. Anyone who understands both the difference between digital and analog computers and who understands lossy compression should be able to understand what I'm suggesting here.
The transporter is a conveyor. It does not fully measure and store a record of what is being transported in such a way that that record has all the properties of a digital file that can be duplicated at will. There are traces left of people who are transported, but these traces are not on the same order of complexity as a whole person. When what's stored in the transporter is materialized, it must must be converted back into the very thing that was transported. At that point only traces remain in the transporter. The essential premise here is that the full complexity of a person simply cannot be expressed digitally.
Replicators on the other hand operate from patterns which do have all the properties of digital files that can be duplicated at will. These patterns express enough attributes so that what is replicated is a passable facsimile of the original. But these patterns cannot fully express all of the complexity that resides in material objects, just as lossily compressed jpeg files are generally not perfect copies of the original image. Using the jpeg analogy, a replicated object simply has only all practically essential attributes, but it doesn't have all attributes. This means replicators are good for things that don't have too much intrinsic complexity.
In the episode Code Of Honour, Lutan presents Picard with a sample of a vaccine that they are negotiating for, after he and his party beam to the ship. He apparently is confident in handing over a small sample because the vaccine can not be replicated.
Crusher: "And we can't. The sample works fine when used as an injection, but it becomes unstable when we try to replicate it."
But, the vaccine can be transported. Dilithium can not be manufactured in a replicator, but we seen it transported. The fluid Latinum can be transported. Living beings are constantly transported, but not replicated. But as I stated earlier, transporters do not make things, they "simply" move things around.
Conclusion based on evidence, having a very detailed scan, does not mean you can replicate something.
Do I think she should have interceded on behalf of the Ocampa? Yes. But as I understand the PD, Janeway should have favored neither the Kazon, nor the Ocampa. However, if you hold that Janeway (through Kes) formed a alliance with the Ocampa, then ... maybe.
No, and this is why. Seeds are alive, they are analogist to fertilized eggs, even if they lay dormant for thousands of years. Also, seeds can dies, become non-viable.
Replicators can not make living things.
If you order a raw potato, cut into pieces and place those piece in soil, they will not develop into potato plants, because they just look like potatoes. Down inside they're not really potatoes.
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That's just the thing--it doesn't have to. It's the scanners that makes it possible.
A transporter's scanners are capable of scanning to a perfect degree. That means when the object or person is re materialized, it is recreated almost in the exact same state as when transported.
Plus the transporter does store memory of a sort--it has to--it would be way too dangerous for it not to.
They even brought Picard and Pulaski back using memory.
Scan a dilithium crystal with a transporter's scanner into a replicator's memory. Problem solved.
It will replicate as many dilithium crystals as you need.
Same thing with the vaccine T-Girl mentioned.
If it can be transported, it can be replicated!
How can you replicate an energy source without another energy source? Energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed; They can only transform from one form to another.
The question is: is the dilithium only mostly used for space travel if it's not common enough. So, in that case it would still cost some money to mine it and then being used as an energy source.
The question is: is the dilithium only mostly used for space travel if it's not common enough. So, in that case it would still cost some money to mine it and then being used as an energy source.
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I think it's used for powering the warp engines which provide energy throughout the ship?
Why mine anything at all? You don't have to, I think.. Theoretically the transporter can replicate it.
Except, the transporter doesn't "recreate" anything, there's no creation going on, It dematerializes you, moves you (somehow) to the destination, and re-materializes you. Unlike the replicator, the transporter doesn't actual make anything.
It stores a memory of the transport event, who traveled, bio-filter info, if something was removed (like a weapon), etc. But not a reproducible copy of the person. If you beam aboard and are materialized, the transported operator can not just keep materializing you over and over again. There is only one you.
Except according to dialog the replicator can't. My personal hypothesis is that the replicator has problems with unusually complex chemical chains.
I do wonder how much energy it takes to replicate a energy source.
Consider this, if you wanted to (carefully) replicate one kilogram of antimatter, how much antimatter would be consumed in the reactor, in the warp core, to produce that one kilogram? would it be one for one? Or more, two for one, maybe three for one, the warp core would "eat" three kilograms of antimatter, and the same amount of matter, to produce one kilogram of antimatter by way of the replicator.
Except how does that work with a non-corporeal entity like the Companion? Spock was supposedly able to modify the UT to "widen its pattern of reception." That's a load of peanut butter. You can't scan brainwave patterns from something that doesn't have a body, let alone a brain.
Valid point. The only way I can see the Universal Translater working was if it worked on a telepathic or otherwise psychic level. That might even explain it being able to lip-sync as well.
Yeah that's true, but as I've established, I love peanut butter; it's great on bananas.
OK, back to the Companion. Man, I had a major crush on Elizabeth Rogers, by the way. Her voice is hot in Metamorphosis. She's exactly my type. If only she were my age. And still alive. And wanted to date me. Where was I?
Electrical impulses. From http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/31.htm:
OK, back to the Companion. Man, I had a major crush on Elizabeth Rogers, by the way. Her voice is hot in Metamorphosis. She's exactly my type. If only she were my age. And still alive. And wanted to date me. Where was I?
Electrical impulses. From http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/31.htm:
In other words, although the Companion does not have a brain, it must have an electromagnetic network that serves the same function. The ability of the augmented universal translator to pick up generalized signals of cognitive processes in the Companion is evidence that such a network existed in the Companion. Her ability to merge with Elinor Donahue, also pretty darn hot by the way, though admittedly not my type really, is further evidence of the existence of such a network.
How could the U.T possibly tell that a brain pattern means "tree" in an alien, let alone its user?
The other thing is, is this thing making you hear the other's language, or translating it into your language, or manipulating your brain patterns directly?
It's hard to see how it would work..otherwise, all aliens cultures are isolated starting in the 21 century...
Here's another..the Vorta are cloned with exact copies of the original. When something happens to a Vorta, another clone is activated with all the previous clone's memories in tact.
How could do this when the active clone is nowhere near the cloning facility?
The other thing is, is this thing making you hear the other's language, or translating it into your language, or manipulating your brain patterns directly?
It's hard to see how it would work..otherwise, all aliens cultures are isolated starting in the 21 century...
Here's another..the Vorta are cloned with exact copies of the original. When something happens to a Vorta, another clone is activated with all the previous clone's memories in tact.
How could do this when the active clone is nowhere near the cloning facility?
A telepathic link, perhaps? Or some kind of dedicated subspace radio implant?
In either case, if you die (or are even severely stressed perhaps), your experiences automatically download to the next clone in line.
In either case, if you die (or are even severely stressed perhaps), your experiences automatically download to the next clone in line.
