Resurrection ships?
The "You Explain It, Thread" Explain it!
- Thread starter Nightdiamond
- Start date
Resurrection ships?
But how does a clone get all the memories of a previous clone when its predecessor is killed light years away?
Weyoun is killed a number of times, obviously away from a cloning facility, and yet he seems to possess the memories of each clone that came before him.
Here's yet another one..
Dukat looks like he's the same age as Kira, Benjamin and Garak. Yet in he is shown as being an adult in command of Terek Nor, the Prefect of Bajor, when Kira was barely 7.
He has no grey hair, wrinkles, nothing.
Who can explain this.
Dukat should be around 70 years old at this point.
^ No reason why Cardassians can't age at a different rate than humans or Bajorans. 
As for the Vorta clones, there's no evidence that any given clone has ALL the memories of the previous one.
As for the Vorta clones, there's no evidence that any given clone has ALL the memories of the previous one.
Refer my previous post. Evidently, this link (whether technological or telepathic) works over interstellar distances.
I wonder if Ron Moore came up with the original idea of cloned Weyoun having the knowledge of the predecessor, even through the death was some distance from a cloning plant.
And then recycled the idea into Nu-Battlestar.
^ No reason why Cardassians can't age at a different rate than humans or Bajorans.
This is Dukat. And this an older Cardassian around the same time period.
Dukat looks like he hasn't aged in years, though he was Prefect of Bajor when Kira was just 3?
I can't buy that, based on the pictures alone.
That has to be explained, somehow.
That one is pretty good, except for the problem of updating-- unless he reports to a cloning facility every time he meets someone new, the new clone won't have any previous memory of those people.
That means he could be fooled, scammed etc--not good for a Vorta.
Unless you can give a further explanation to make this one fit.
.
True, but having even some of those memories is a mystery. It seems they had only one cloning facility. And Weyoun was getting killed all over the place.
How could his thoughts get from where he was, light years away, to where the inactive clones were?
Who can give a specific explanation?
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This is Dukat. And this an older Cardassian around the same time period.
Dukat looks like he hasn't aged in years, though he was Prefect of Bajor when Kira was just 3?
I can't buy that, based on the pictures alone.
That has to be explained, somehow.
We have no idea how old either of those men are. And who's to say what Madred looked like back in the days of the occupation? We never saw him back then, he could have looked much the same.
In any case, it's impossible to gauge the aging habits of the Cardassians just by looking at Dukat. That's just one man. And would you expect them to go to all the trouble to try and 'de-age' Marc Alaimo just for a couple of scenes? They didn't do that with Nana Visitor, did they? (We've seen occupation-era Kira, and she looked the same, except for a different hairstyle)
The explanation is quite simple: Roddenberry's neurons weren't firing on all thrusters.
CRUSHER: (examining a bolt of cloth) Gold would be lovely with this. I am sure, Commander, there are reasons for a first officer to want to demonstrate his energy and alertness to a new captain. But since my duty and interests are outside the command structure
(Suddenly the bolt of cloth has a gold pattern on it)
RIKER: Isn't it remarkable they happen to have exactly what you asked for?
CRUSHER: Thank you. I'll take the entire bolt. Send it to our starship when it arrives. Charge to Doctor Crusher.
(And since 24th C. humans don't have money, good luck collecting.)
Not all the clones are the same. I guess they they do make a visit to the cloning facility on frequent basis for this reason. Remember at the end of the series the female founder said she wished Garack hadn't kill the last Weyoun clone? Their cloning facility was destroyed earlier in the war.
The explanation is quite simple: Roddenberry's neurons weren't firing on all thrusters.
CRUSHER: (examining a bolt of cloth) Gold would be lovely with this. I am sure, Commander, there are reasons for a first officer to want to demonstrate his energy and alertness to a new captain. But since my duty and interests are outside the command structure
(Suddenly the bolt of cloth has a gold pattern on it)
RIKER: Isn't it remarkable they happen to have exactly what you asked for?
CRUSHER: Thank you. I'll take the entire bolt. Send it to our starship when it arrives. Charge to Doctor Crusher.
(And since 24th C. humans don't have money, good luck collecting.)
Not necessarily.
The Bandi were NOT Federation members for one thing, and that line could also be interpreted in a manner that 'charge' means: someone on board the Enterprise-D would probably shuttle or transport the appropriate compensation in resources/materials instead of 'money'.
But, the Federation could in fact employ 'credits' when dealing with cultures/races that use a money-based economy... not internally though.
There's room for leeway here.
There it is..Human beings in the 24th still both work and want things.
And yet when Jake wanted/needed something, he couldn't get his hands on it. Because Humans don't have money--they work only to better themselves
I like the idea that they clone at a molecular level, so they capture the memories too.
I assumed too, that they must transmit the memories to the facility, and the info was downloaded into the inactive clone and it still sounds good, but doing over it light years is what gets me.
True, but I don't know if it was stated that Cardassians are long lived or aged slowly. They did it with the Vulcans, and suggested it with the Klingons and Romulans, but not with the Cardasians.
It strains belief, that Dukat could be that old when Kira was young, and be that young when Kira was older.
Enabran Tain looked old and he had a son that looked about the same age as Dukat or Kira. Same thing with Mila.
Kira's Cardassian "Father" same deal..he looked older with grey hair and such.
Dukat-- no grey hair, or obvious wrinkles, and he had to be at least in his 30s when Kira was only 3...so that would make him nearly 70 years old at the start of the series!
So far, no definite solution over how the Universal Tranlator works..it can't be telepathy, mind scanner idea kind of works, but fails when you get to the issue of the view screen, or aliens with a different physiology.
Is there a way?
In one episode Jake doesn't need money, but in a different episode he and Nog through a series of business deals obtain five bars of latinum. Jake is the decision maker in some of the deals, and there is no suggestion that Nog is going to take all the money. In the episode you mention, Jake is still trying to obtain money, despite his saying he doesn't need money.And yet when Jake wanted/needed something, he couldn't get his hands on it. Because Humans don't have money--they work only to better themselves
Sometimes, actions speak louder than words.
What that means is, Jake's denouncement of money, and his avocation of "I don't need money," is paper thin. Jake has obtained money in the past when it suited his needs. He understand money's value, and it's societal uses.
His words in For the Cards might also mean that his personal adoption of the no money philosophy is a resent move for him. And a indication that not all Humans in the Federation hold to this particular and rarely mentioned philosophy. If one Human can switch from yes money, to no money, then other Humans can too. And in the other direction as well. While other humans in the Federation still can remain yes money (or no) for their entire lives.
Because Quark was able to sell his shuttle in good old sector zero zero one, that means that the yes money philosophy is alive and well on Earth. Thatmuch IS canon.
And Earth is as "inside the Federation" as you can get.
His words in For the Cards might also mean that his personal adoption of the no money philosophy is a resent move for him. And a indication that not all Humans in the Federation hold to this particular and rarely mentioned philosophy. If one Human can switch from yes money, to no money, then other Humans can too. And in the other direction as well. While other humans in the Federation still can remain yes money (or no) for their entire lives.
Because Quark was able to sell his shuttle in good old sector zero zero one, that means that the yes money philosophy is alive and well on Earth. Thatmuch IS canon.
And Earth is as "inside the Federation" as you can get.
Jake understands the 'value of money' probably because he is aware of species that still use it.
Jake was situated on Ds9, a place which as only administered by SF, technically speaking it WAS NOT a Federation star-base, and given the political play that took place during Ds9, it's not beyond the realm of possibility for SF and the Federation to take semantics seriously.
Hence... there was no 'moneyless-economy' on Ds9 per say. In regards to SF officers, they would likely get certain privileges that allow them access to most items on the station completely for free, but when dealing with Quark, they would have to conform to whatever monetary system he has there.
Furthermore, SF could have given it's SF officers on Ds9 enough 'credits' so they can enjoy themselves as they would on any SF vessel or starbase where money or currency was not needed.
Bajorans had a money based economy, and there's no reason to think that Ds9 didn't have such a system.
Though the situations where we've seen humans or SF officers use money can easily maintain the premise that humans and SF/Fed doesn't have a money based economy internally, because those situations were 'muddy' enough (or 'vague' enough - without 0 details).
Quark sold his shuttle in sector 001?
Ok...
Rom stated: " Look on the bright side, brother. You may've had to sell your shuttle for salvage, but at least you got enough for our passage home."
First off... we don't know if Quark sold it in sector 001 or if humans were involved in the transaction.
Second: the meaning of the word 'sold' means what it mean to a FERENGI. In human terms (of the Trek 24th century) it could mean they traded their shuttle for salvage and it's value in resources was good enough to warrant their safe passage to Ds9.
We have 0 idea on who took them to Ds9 though or just what the transaction in question implied.
There was 0 mention of latinum or any kind 'money' as far as I am able to tell.
Semantics play a rather important role in Trek actually, given that there have been several times where people had to clarify what something means from culture to culture.
Jake was situated on Ds9, a place which as only administered by SF, technically speaking it WAS NOT a Federation star-base, and given the political play that took place during Ds9, it's not beyond the realm of possibility for SF and the Federation to take semantics seriously.
Hence... there was no 'moneyless-economy' on Ds9 per say. In regards to SF officers, they would likely get certain privileges that allow them access to most items on the station completely for free, but when dealing with Quark, they would have to conform to whatever monetary system he has there.
Furthermore, SF could have given it's SF officers on Ds9 enough 'credits' so they can enjoy themselves as they would on any SF vessel or starbase where money or currency was not needed.
Bajorans had a money based economy, and there's no reason to think that Ds9 didn't have such a system.
Though the situations where we've seen humans or SF officers use money can easily maintain the premise that humans and SF/Fed doesn't have a money based economy internally, because those situations were 'muddy' enough (or 'vague' enough - without 0 details).
Quark sold his shuttle in sector 001?
Ok...
Rom stated: " Look on the bright side, brother. You may've had to sell your shuttle for salvage, but at least you got enough for our passage home."
First off... we don't know if Quark sold it in sector 001 or if humans were involved in the transaction.
Second: the meaning of the word 'sold' means what it mean to a FERENGI. In human terms (of the Trek 24th century) it could mean they traded their shuttle for salvage and it's value in resources was good enough to warrant their safe passage to Ds9.
We have 0 idea on who took them to Ds9 though or just what the transaction in question implied.
There was 0 mention of latinum or any kind 'money' as far as I am able to tell.
Semantics play a rather important role in Trek actually, given that there have been several times where people had to clarify what something means from culture to culture.
We do know that Klingon children age quickly from childhood to post adolescence in less than the time it takes a Human child. Example a human goes from infant to adolescent to post adolescence in about 20 years. A Klingon goes through that same growth in about half the time. Worf's son, Alexander, being an example.
What if some races the opposite is true, like in Miri, but not by the result of a medical experiment gone awry, but because that's the way they are. Cardassians may have the best of both world in the first years of their life, a childhood and adolescence like Humans then they reach the peak of their physical and mental fitness and stay there for for 70 to 80 years, then go into a decline again similar to Humans, and rapidly (compared to their peak years) age to infirmity then death in about 20 years. This would give them an average life span of between 110 to 120 years. Comparable to humans, but they retain their peak a lot longer than humans.
I think the cloning facilities are closed to Cardassian Prime. And I think they've never mentioned how they clone the Vortas, exactly... My guess is Weyoun paid a visit to the cloning facilities aat the end of every shift and they scan him with scanners that scanned every molecule in his body.
And if the facilities were not that close to home, the Dominion ships were probably faster than anything the Federation had.
This is a good explanation-- it tries to cover all the tracks, and get a little scientific as well.
But that might be a little awkward if not impractical. What if the other party, (the Bandi) wanted something that worth way more than the cloth?
That would make economic commerce a headache.
The scenario would be like this;
Economic commerce in Trek is weird, because it's all over the place. You have a society with replicators that can make the food, so hence the quotes that humans don't need money or don't have any money.
That kind of makes sense. Then you have humans who seem to need money, so they work hard at jobs like maids, miners etc. Then you have humans who actually dabble in crime to make money. In the end, it either looks odd, weird or cute.
Joseph Sisko works hard in his restaurant, but he's not getting paid for it--he just pretends to , like the way children play with cash registers, lol.
And Cassidy Yates, really seems to bust her but working, even breaking the law, (and goes to prison for it) although she is a human and doesn't really need to do it. And Vash, and Tom Paris..they're just plain hard to figure out..
This stuff really needs to be sorted out...or explained neatly.
Here's another one: Remember that episode where a Starfleet officer wanted to take Data and perform an experiment on him?
There was a discussion where it was agreed you can't just take a person and experiment on them and that Data had rights.
And then, this:
Where did they get that from? Data was accepted into Starfleet and was a Federation citizen. I assume they accept only sentient, living beings members.
Where did they get the idea that Data was the property of Starfleet? They flew right by that one without explaining it.
Is this one of the Federations dirty little secrets? Who wants to try to tackle this one?
Lazy writing.
That whole episode was set up specifically to shoehorn Data into having to justify himself as a being. I mean, the way that Starbase commander railroaded the whole thing, including forcing Riker to act against Data, was bloody disgraceful. I have trouble seeing how any appeal against that entire set-up wouldn't be upheld. Don't know why Picard and co didn't arrest HER.
