The X-Men Cinematic Universe (General Discussion)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by DigificWriter, May 1, 2016.

  1. flavaflav

    flavaflav Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    This is exactly what was going through my head after walking out of the theater. I definitely think it was an Onslaught sorta thing.
     
  2. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Bad as well as boring (Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix).

    @suarezguy

    The issue I see, was creative talent (writers, producers, directors) trying to outsmart the material, change things to their liking and shoehorn/show off actors/characters into places they didn't fit (4 time Oscar nominated and Oscar winner Jennifer Lawrence).

    If you look at the earlier films, you can see they all had stories and mostly made sense.

    X1 - X-Men vs Magneto and the Brotherhood. Mission, save the UN delegates from a radiation machine.

    X2 - X-Men and Magneto unite to fight a human threat, who as mutants and a sinister plan to exterminate all mutants.

    X3 - The cure of mutation is created and quickly weaponized. Magneto returns with a larger Brotherhood. Jean is unleashed and out of control. The X-Men have to defend the humans, the boy who is the "cure", and fight the brotherhood.

    XMO - Full telling of Wolverine's origins. After the abridged references and flashback given in X2.

    The Wolverine - Wolverine in Japan. Inspired by the Claremont and Frank Miller tale from the 1980s. Logan gets a shot a happiness and mortality.

    First Class - Young Charles and Erik recruit a team of mutants during the hostile and volatile era of the 1960s. The first class of X-Men clash swords against the Hellfire Club and their leader, Sebastian Shaw.

    Days of Future Past - After mutant incidents in X1-X3, FC, an assassination by Mystique against Trask (in the comics Mystique kills a US senator publicly at the Capitol), and a host of other seen and unseen events. The final solution to the mutant problem was enacted. The Sentinels hunted down and killed every mutant threat they could find. Mutants who surrendered were imprisoned in death camps.

    Two generations of X-Men unite to change their destiny and save the future.

    Deadpool 1 and 2 - Ryan Reynolds, with help from Hugh Jackman, helped write, produced and act in these movies. Deadpool is a character Reynolds has been passionate about for almost 2 decades. Smart writing, good comedy, fun and unique characters and smaller stories with messages behind them really broke through to audiences.

    Logan - After 17 years, Hugh Jackman says farewell to Wolverine. Adapting Mark Millar's tale with some changes. Old man Logan's healing factor is failing him. Due to constant use over decades combating the Adamantium poisoning from his skeleton. Tries to protect what little he has left, and a daughter he never knew he had.

    Apocalypse - An ancient mutant returns to life after several millennia. The young versions of the classic X-Men now have to take up the fight to save the world. If only they could get Mystique/JLaw off the screen, then maybe we could've learned more and spent time getting to know them.

    Apocalypse is where I think the X films got boring. Starting with Apocalypse himself. His goals in the comics are, one world, under him. In the movie, he's played more like a suped up version of Shaw and Magneto. Despite putting the world at stake, the film doesn't carry the gravitas of that threat like the MCU and DC films do. What the film lacks, IMO, is the rage surrounding Apocalypse's character. He was betrayed by mutants and mankind alike in ancient Egypt. He wouldn't be pulling his punches on their descendants. Bend the knee or he destroys you. Not "come out Charles, or I'll kill Mystique".

    Dark Phoenix - Phoenix story, Take two. Jean Grey is possessed by an extraterrestrial force, known as the Phoenix. The Phoenix Force wiped out the D'Bari home world (prior the events of the film, and survivors come to Earth. Seeking the Phoenix and it's host, Jean. Their plan is to use manipulate and use Jean to wipe out the Earth's inhabitants and colonize it for themselves. The X-Men find themselves divided on whether to save Jean or kill her.

    Here we have another attempt to out-smart the material and craft a story that doesn't work. In the comics, it is the Shi'ar Empire, led my Empress Lilandra and her imperial guardsman Gladiator (Superman clone) who seek to destroy Jean and the Phoenix. As she is a threat of all life, including herself. The X-Men decide to resist and protect Jean, at the expense of themselves. They lose and it's Scott and Jean who are the last two standing. Jean sacrifices herself while on the moon. Disintegrating her body with a weapon. This gambit was to prevent the Shi'ar from going for broke and annihilating the entire solar system to destroy the Phoenix.

    If the comic tale was too big. Make it smaller but smarter. Why not bring back the Hellfire Club and have Mastermind be in control now. DP cast an actress to be Selene (who in the comics is the Black Queen), Emma Frost is the White Queen, and Madeline Pryor (Jean's clone is the Red Queen).
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  3. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't see those kids using any powers, did you?
     
  4. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I didn't not see them using powers... :p
     
  5. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You really did.

    "Do you know I have plans for this place? I mean to turn it into a real campus, a university, not just for mutants either, for humans too." - Charles Xavier, 1983
     
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  6. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think they had too many bad movies though. I am one of the people who liked The Last Stand for what it was, but Wolverine Origins was just horrible. The only other truly horrible movie was Apocalypse, which is what I think killed the franchise.
     
  7. That's So Bane

    That's So Bane Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Apocalypse was bad, but nowhere near Origins bad. In fact, I'd have to say it's fairly comparable to The Last Stand, except that Last Stand has the benefit of a genuinely enjoyable team action sequence (which is unfortunately almost unique in the franchise, the only other example being DoFP) and Apocalypse has the stupid weapon x detour in the middle which is totally unrelated to anything else in the movie.

    You're probably right, though, that Apocalypse was the last straw. Not because it was utterly awful, but because we'd already had the Last Stand and Origins and mixed reception at best for First Class and the Wolverine and Apocalypse was supposed to be following up on the franchise's recovery with Brian Singer back at the helm, making the disappointment even worse.

    In the end, it didn't matter too much, though, since the merger was coming anyway.
     
  8. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know, I think as bad as it was, Origins could at least be entertaining at times. Apocalypse was mostly just boring and forgettable for me.
     
  9. That's So Bane

    That's So Bane Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^Origins bored me so much I literally forgot I had already seen it. Twice. I still can't remember much about the third viewing beyond the eerie realization that I'd already seen all of this multiple times before.
     
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  10. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    I view DOFP as the end of the main X-Men series. The cast that started in First Class was good, but FC didn't really set the world on fire at the time. Still, it's one of the best entries. DOFP brought back the original trilogy cast (which I think more people are fond of and has the characters people like) and the 4 FC cast members (which I don't think people are as invested in compared to the OG). Given the diminishing returns at the BO for the main X-Men titles, as well as inflated ticket prices from IMAX, 3D, and other add-ons. The recent X films have issues. Deadpool and Logan prove their is strength in the brand,. But less people care about "Mystique and the X-Men".

    Couple the less popularity of the FC cast (JLaw and friends) and the boring wasteland that was Apocalypse (film and character). You a collective meh from general audiences.

    2016 is what cracked the main X-titles at Fox, IMO.

    6 superhero films released that year. With X-Men bringing up the rear at the BO and merchandise.

    Box Office
    1. Captain America Civil War
    2. Batman v Superman
    3. Deadpool
    4. Suicide Squad
    5. Dr Strange
    6. X-Men Apocalypse

    Merchandise:
    1. Deadpool
    2. Batman v Superman
    3. Captain America Civil War
    4. Suicide Squad
    5. Dr. Strange
    6. X-Men Apocalypse


    If they had done more of what people wanted to see, brought in fan favorite mutants (Gambit, Omega Red, Red Queen, Black Queen, Mr Sinister) and had sharper writing. This IP could've stayed on the high ground.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  11. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I'd say it "stayed on the high ground" just fine as it was, given that it made history as the longest-running superhero film franchise in history.
     
  12. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hanging around after one's welcome has worn out, and repeadedly crapping on the rug and expecting applause is hardly laudable. I mean if you go by that metric, soap operas are the highest form entertainment known to humankind!
     
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  13. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Certainly not the "highest," but they're definitely notable for their longevity, yes.

    I think Apocalypse's final battle is probably the best mutant action extravaganza, with only FC's Cuba finale on its level. Say what one will about the rest of the movie, especially its clunky story structure, but that sequence is a terrific display and juggling of lots of different power sets squaring off at the same time, including a psychic realm, all skillfully shot and cleanly edited. (Also, the Ancient Egypt prologue is no slouch, either.)
     
  14. That's So Bane

    That's So Bane Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Really? Apocalypse literally just stands there for most of the battle. Yeah, the psychic fight was decent, but not the rest.
     
  15. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    People who complain about comic book movies not being close enough to the source material have either forgotten or never realized how far Hollywood would diverge from source material before comic book superhero movies became a thing.

    Reading about the X-Men movie that was in script phase back in the 80s makes me so grateful for the comic book movies of today. I actually remember reading an interview with Chris Claremont back in the day where he mentioned this.

    https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2019/6/11/18659771/x-men-1980s-marvel-movie-orion-pictures
     
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  16. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kinda.
    Untouchable all powerful villains can be boring.
    They avoided that with Thanos where at least some of the heroes could technically go toe to toe with him and the others put up a decent fight if they teamed up.
    Thanos had to fight smart and dirty at least some of the time.
    He didn’t feel unbeatable.
    Apocalypse was beaten by pure special effectiveness.
     
  17. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He stood there as his lieutenants fought on the ground and in the air around him, and it rocked. ;)
     
  18. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    "Horsemen". ;)
     
  19. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The author of that article kept things on the rails until he "conveniently" ignored the fact that The Last Stand explains exactly how and why Xavier is alive for the events of the coda of The Wolverine and the 2023 events of Days of Future Past AND decided to ignore all of the facts grouping both Dark Phoenix and Logan into his "Timeline B"; at that point, though, things went completely off-track and turned what was heretofore a reasonable summation of things into a joke rant.