Then who's the other Time Lord/ Lady who stood there with her in "shame?" 
The Woman? (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Emissary of the Prophets
- Start date
^ It doesn't matter.
Well, not right now...
ETA: just had a thought. Sometimes it's better not to know. I was reminded of HHG2G, where there was a pot of petunias that said "Oh no, not again", which was incredibly funny because it had no explanation. Later, though, the author included some long convoluted explanation into, uhhh, the pot of petunias's backstory, which completely ruined it, which I have mercifully blocked from my memory. So if we never know, I'm cool with it.
BTW, that paragraph above has to be one of the maddest and geekiest things I've ever written.
Well, not right now...
ETA: just had a thought. Sometimes it's better not to know. I was reminded of HHG2G, where there was a pot of petunias that said "Oh no, not again", which was incredibly funny because it had no explanation. Later, though, the author included some long convoluted explanation into, uhhh, the pot of petunias's backstory, which completely ruined it, which I have mercifully blocked from my memory. So if we never know, I'm cool with it.
BTW, that paragraph above has to be one of the maddest and geekiest things I've ever written.
It occurs to me that this debate is going to go on for looooooong time. That said, I vote Susan.
I keep leaning between Susan and his mother.
I'm also curious whether she was from a version of reality in which all the timelords ascended (allowing her to communicate with Donna's grandfather). Would that version of reality somehow be destroyed by the doctor's actions, or can the two versions of reality co-exist?
Or possibly her Mother
I too thought it might have been old Donna.
but here's my most perverse thought...
It was the Master's Mother.
but here's my most perverse thought...
It was the Master's Mother.
Then who's the other Time Lord/ Lady who stood there with her in "shame?"
That's the beauty of having two of them. They can check the top two fan guesses use them both.
My thoughts immediately went to Romana, although Omaha's explanation now has me leaning towards Susan.
Another vote for Susan. Only cause that's who I'd like her to have been - not cause it makes any sense.
Sylvia is out of focus in the foreground, a sign that she is not important to the scene.
But since she appeared to Wilf in the present day as well as well being in the past makes no sense if she's really Susan. If all the Time Lords wer time locked in the Time War except for the Doctor and the Master there's no way she could appear to Wilf in person or even on the TV for that matter.
Once again...
Thing is, dramatically, in terms of the strctures RTD likes to use for these stories (including this one) his mother doesn't fit.
RTD likes to mirror characters and situations - e.g the Daleks have a crazed prophet and so do the Timeys. The Doctor's companions are mirrored with Davros' Daleks in Journey's End. You get the idea.
If this had been, say, the end of season 2, then the Doctor's mum would make sense - it'd fit with mirroring Rose getting a dad back. But in this, the Doctor's not being played against a parent - unless you count Naismith wanting his daughter to live forever, but then he's more bouncing off the Master's desire for immortality, and Wilf wanting Donna fixed.
Also, the Doctor's mum would not just undercut the show as a whole (the clue's in the name, right - Who) but immediately require a whole bunch of explanations. The only thing going for it is that the not-we might like the domestics.
Fannish-wise, FWIW, his mother would be human, and not a Timey. Plus it's implied that the rest of his family is dead as far back as the Troughton era, well before the Time War. Oh, and all the mums RTD has written in DW have been bloody annoying idioitic harridans, which this one wasn't - there's conclusive evidence for you!
So who's most likely? Well, she has to be a Time Lord who cares about the Doctor, so that rules out Rose, Donna, The White Guardian (not Timeys), the Rani (wouldn't care), etc... In descending order of likelihood, the remaining suspects are:
1) Susan - Lost on Earth, psychic enough to contact a human, married one, there's the signifcant look at Wilfs' granddaughter when asked who she is - i.e. "the Granddaughter".... There's enough evidence.
2) The Doctor's Wife (i.e. Susan's gran)- Could be a mirroring with Lucy's "faithful wife" thing as we were reminded in Part 1, except the Doctor's wife sets out to save him, not get rid of him. This would fit with the dramatic structure, and tease the fans (remember JNT's old jape? Then there's Patience/Larna) Also could fit with the look at Donna, as she's a bride at that moment.
3) Romana- Again, a Timey with a great fondness for the Doctor, and who's pretty much smarter than him. Often wore white too. Was President before Dalton
4) Somebody else. The Inquisitor perhaps- if only because she wore white, and might feel she owes him. But more likely it has to be family - a sister, perhaps, to fit in with all the other Star Wars knockoffs in the episode...
Thing is, dramatically, in terms of the strctures RTD likes to use for these stories (including this one) his mother doesn't fit.
RTD likes to mirror characters and situations - e.g the Daleks have a crazed prophet and so do the Timeys. The Doctor's companions are mirrored with Davros' Daleks in Journey's End. You get the idea.
If this had been, say, the end of season 2, then the Doctor's mum would make sense - it'd fit with mirroring Rose getting a dad back. But in this, the Doctor's not being played against a parent - unless you count Naismith wanting his daughter to live forever, but then he's more bouncing off the Master's desire for immortality, and Wilf wanting Donna fixed.
Also, the Doctor's mum would not just undercut the show as a whole (the clue's in the name, right - Who) but immediately require a whole bunch of explanations. The only thing going for it is that the not-we might like the domestics.
Fannish-wise, FWIW, his mother would be human, and not a Timey. Plus it's implied that the rest of his family is dead as far back as the Troughton era, well before the Time War. Oh, and all the mums RTD has written in DW have been bloody annoying idioitic harridans, which this one wasn't - there's conclusive evidence for you!
So who's most likely? Well, she has to be a Time Lord who cares about the Doctor, so that rules out Rose, Donna, The White Guardian (not Timeys), the Rani (wouldn't care), etc... In descending order of likelihood, the remaining suspects are:
1) Susan - Lost on Earth, psychic enough to contact a human, married one, there's the signifcant look at Wilfs' granddaughter when asked who she is - i.e. "the Granddaughter".... There's enough evidence.
2) The Doctor's Wife (i.e. Susan's gran)- Could be a mirroring with Lucy's "faithful wife" thing as we were reminded in Part 1, except the Doctor's wife sets out to save him, not get rid of him. This would fit with the dramatic structure, and tease the fans (remember JNT's old jape? Then there's Patience/Larna) Also could fit with the look at Donna, as she's a bride at that moment.
3) Romana- Again, a Timey with a great fondness for the Doctor, and who's pretty much smarter than him. Often wore white too. Was President before Dalton
4) Somebody else. The Inquisitor perhaps- if only because she wore white, and might feel she owes him. But more likely it has to be family - a sister, perhaps, to fit in with all the other Star Wars knockoffs in the episode...
I have to say, it does beg the question, which may have been answered and I missed it.
WHY did she appear to Wilf? And HOW did she appear to Wilf, if she was timelocked? Granted, it could be a signal thing, like four beats, but it was more complex than that, and she did appear on the TV twice.
I have a strong suspicion there's something going on... and it's a setup for Season 5. Or maybe Season 6. The Moff just had to say to RTD, "Hey, could you include this character in a few scenes? I have an idea in mind." Wouldn't be surprised.
WHY did she appear to Wilf? And HOW did she appear to Wilf, if she was timelocked? Granted, it could be a signal thing, like four beats, but it was more complex than that, and she did appear on the TV twice.
I have a strong suspicion there's something going on... and it's a setup for Season 5. Or maybe Season 6. The Moff just had to say to RTD, "Hey, could you include this character in a few scenes? I have an idea in mind." Wouldn't be surprised.
