Woah now! Who are these people who hate those three shows? Now, I know lots of people aren't nuts about Voyager and Enterprise (and I can see how they feel, although Voyager was OK), but TNG? Don't most Trek fans love that show? Now, I know there are plenty around who like DS9 better (for me, it depends how I'm feeling), but many if not most of those people were TNG fans first (I know I was). Not to mention the fact that pretty much all of DS9's premise came out of TNG. Surely DS9 fans don't wish that The Wounded or Ensign Ro had never happened, because, well...
The way The Federation was portrayed in DS9
- Thread starter John200
- Start date
Woah now! Who are these people who hate those three shows? Now, I know lots of people aren't nuts about Voyager and Enterprise (and I can see how they feel, although Voyager was OK), but TNG? Don't most Trek fans love that show? Now, I know there are plenty around who like DS9 better (for me, it depends how I'm feeling), but many if not most of those people were TNG fans first (I know I was). Not to mention the fact that pretty much all of DS9's premise came out of TNG. Surely DS9 fans don't wish that The Wounded or Ensign Ro had never happened, because, well...
DS9 proved that the Federation people are, in reality, dirty slimeballs (how much lower can you get than committing genocide, and then refusing to stop it?!!!) and their alleged system of peace is just a facade.
Of course, despite putting that reality on-screen, DS9 also, totally inexplicably, tried to justify it, and pretend nothing is wrong with it. Like with the BS messages that the genocide is ok because a war is on, and that after it ends, Odo is going to be able to 'spread humanity' to and brainwash The Great Link into thinking humans are ok, despite the fact that they were just committing a genocide against them.
Not only is the very idea inherently ludicrous, is it also a bastardization of the Odo character himself. There is no way that an in-character Odo would have allowed the genocide to continue for one second, much less still believe that humans are fine and dandy after Sisko et al. have decided to continue the genocide.
In other words, the DS9 showrunners had the balls to show the Federation as it's ugly, evil true self, and then also tried to talk out of both sides of their mouths by reniging on that reality, and portraying the Federation is wonderful nonetheless. These are irreconcilable concepts, and the showrunners' attempt to reconcile them is made of epic fail.
Therefore, a choice must be made about which side of the showrunners' mouths to listen to. I personally reject the ludicrous and OOC stuff and go with the showrunners' original depiction of the Federation as slimeballs whose system is a facade, and Odo as a man of integrity who will always pursue justice at all costs, as the truth. I don't see how any other conclusions can be made. There is absolutey no way to justify the genocide against the Founders, period. Nor Odo's complacency about it.
To add insult to (the Federation's) injury, that the genocide happened just goes to show that the Founders were right all along, and had great, totally legitimate reason to distrust and want to eliminate or subjugate all solids.
TOTALLY agree! This is one of the major reasons why I detest the 4th through the 7th seasons of Deep Space Nine! Insult to injury Odo simply brain washes the head founder and everything is ok now. Sisko go now and have your fight with one time 3 dimensional character named Gul Dukat who is now a one dimensional demento. Great Observation, Navaros.
A bit harsh, surely? All of those issues basically come from seasons 6 and 7.
Withers
Captain
Portraying humanity as though we were all characters on Sesame Street isn't the solution. I know the show can be difficult to follow when there are conflicts happening that spawn more than 42 minutes and pose moral dilemmas that might actually be difficult to solve... but that's what makes for good television. If that's too avant-garde for your taste there's always 3 seasons of TOS where that sort of thing straight up does not exist
-Withers-
DS9 proved that the Federation people are, in reality, dirty slimeballs (how much lower can you get than committing genocide, and then refusing to stop it?!!!) and their alleged system of peace is just a facade.
Of course, despite putting that reality on-screen, DS9 also, totally inexplicably, tried to justify it, and pretend nothing is wrong with it. Like with the BS messages that the genocide is ok because a war is on, and that after it ends, Odo is going to be able to 'spread humanity' to and brainwash The Great Link into thinking humans are ok, despite the fact that they were just committing a genocide against them.
Not only is the very idea inherently ludicrous, is it also a bastardization of the Odo character himself. There is no way that an in-character Odo would have allowed the genocide to continue for one second, much less still believe that humans are fine and dandy after Sisko et al. have decided to continue the genocide.
In other words, the DS9 showrunners had the balls to show the Federation as it's ugly, evil true self, and then also tried to talk out of both sides of their mouths by reniging on that reality, and portraying the Federation is wonderful nonetheless. These are irreconcilable concepts, and the showrunners' attempt to reconcile them is made of epic fail.
Therefore, a choice must be made about which side of the showrunners' mouths to listen to. I personally reject the ludicrous and OOC stuff and go with the showrunners' original depiction of the Federation as slimeballs whose system is a facade, and Odo as a man of integrity who will always pursue justice at all costs, as the truth. I don't see how any other conclusions can be made. There is absolutey no way to justify the genocide against the Founders, period. Nor Odo's complacency about it.
To add insult to (the Federation's) injury, that the genocide happened just goes to show that the Founders were right all along, and had great, totally legitimate reason to distrust and want to eliminate or subjugate all solids.
TOTALLY agree! This is one of the major reasons why I detest the 4th through the 7th seasons of Deep Space Nine! Insult to injury Odo simply brain washes the head founder and everything is ok now. Sisko go now and have your fight with one time 3 dimensional character named Gul Dukat who is now a one dimensional demento. Great Observation, Navaros.
There is nothing to suggest that Odo did any kind of "brain-washing" on the female shape shifter. What it came down to for her was the survival of The Great Link. Ultimately she surrendered to save her own people, a very simple heart felt decision. Also, I loved that the end of the war meant one more sacrifice, Odo's future with Kira.
Why, I just raped and murdered a young Brazilian girl this morning. Frankly, I want Star Trek to include paedophiles and murders in the main cast, but we can work towards it gradually by having people that are emotionally scared by their past, or perhaps people that just aren't easy to get along with. You know, like some people on this here message board.
They've already done it. Remember Necessary Evil?
And according to some people, Neelix was a paedophile, so...
I guess I'll just spend the next 60 years... doing nothing.
It's really hard to say. The only thing more cryptic than the Federation economic system is the political structure. It's clear there's a council and a president whose terms take place on Earth, but the election process and the power of the administration is a total mystery. Certain episodes make it seem like there's an executive branch and StarFleet acts as a civilian-run military, but throughout most of trek StarFleet appears to have a great deal of autonomy.
