The War College thread

[Charles Phipps]

My interpretation purely as a fan was that the War College was what replaced Starfleet Academy after Earth withdrew from the Federation. It was a purely naval and military based organization that existed while Starfleet Academy didn’t exist. They aren’t meant to be “bad” but they’re meant to show the Federation had lost its way and were pouring out MACOs and Hazard Teams.

Which is why I was confused as bork by the fact that not only had they re-established Starfleet Academy but also built a campus of the War College on the exact same spot.

But Lura is a graduate and there's always been those among the fandom who think vilifying soldiers has been something of a bad idea even as the threats facing the galaxy have never really gone down.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

The War College is still a thing because it's implied that The Federation is currently dividing Starfleet into an exploration/diplomacy division and a defense division. My take is that some of the fleet is getting assigned to five year missions and diplomatic outreach and some of the fleet is being kept close to home and focused and purely on defending the Federations borders defending planets from threats like the Venari Ral.

Note in 'Beta Test', President Sadal asks for 12 battle ready starships and the camera pans to Kelrec who visibly balks at the request. I think that implies the division of duties of federation starships pretty clearly.

You are right that the War College is representative of the Federation and Starfleet struggling with it's identity. But I think 'Vitus Reflux' has set up an arc of exploring this through the relationships between the groups of cadets. I think by the end of the season the war college will be deemed unnecessary and the cadets will be rolled into a new unified starfleet academy.

 

[NCC-73515]

Which is why I was confused as bork by the fact that not only had they re-established Starfleet Academy but also built a campus of the War College on the exact same spot.

I thought the WC was already there and stayed open, while SFA reopened with a new building (the Athena)

 

[Guy Gardener]

My interpretation purely as a fan was that the War College was what replaced Starfleet Academy after Earth withdrew from the Federation. It was a purely naval and military based organization that existed while Starfleet Academy didn’t exist. They aren’t meant to be “bad” but they’re meant to show the Federation had lost its way and were pouring out MACOs and Hazard Teams.

Which is why I was confused as bork by the fact that not only had they re-established Starfleet Academy but also built a campus of the War College on the exact same spot.

But Lora is a graduate and there's always been those among the fandom who think vilifying soldiers has been something of a bad idea even as the threats facing the galaxy have never really gone down.

Earth left the Federation. They had the earth Defense Force. It's like asking why Germany doesn't have a Hitler Youth anymore? Starfleet did not have a "usable" fleet for a century which is why the member worlds were cut off from one another and there was little possible extensive interstellar co-operation since trade was cost prohibitive.

The War College is still a thing because it's implied that The Federation is currently dividing Starfleet into an exploration/diplomacy division and a defense division. My take is that some of the fleet is getting assigned to five year missions and diplomatic outreach and some of the fleet is being kept close to home and focused and purely on defending the Federations borders defending planets from threats like the Venari Ral.

Note in 'Beta Test', President Sadal asks for 12 battle ready starships and the camera pans to Kelrec who visibly balks at the request. I think that implies the division of duties of federation starships pretty clearly.

You are right that the War College is representative of the Federation and Starfleet struggling with it's identity. But I think 'Vitus Reflux' has set up an arc of exploring this through the relationships between the groups of cadets. I think by the end of the season the war college will be deemed unnecessary and the cadets will be rolled into a new unified starfleet academy.

It's possible that the Federation fleet is massive, even though they had no dilithium for a century. Mostly unused warp reactors, every ship was kept close to home working almost entirely on impulse to defend a planet. Of course that would be like saying that all the US Nuclear air craft carriers can still be run on coal, if the coal industry ever gets its shit back together, although I saw a US Battleship being propelled by a sail recently. That was cool.

I thought the WC was already there and stayed open, while SFA reopened with a new building (the Athena)

Earth rejoined the Federation a year ago. Any old War college campus is going to be non Terran. The Pyramids are landing platforms for Goul'd motherships. The Athena can land at any campus or annex across the Federation?

If Lura is one years old, and this is a Kes dealio, Jem Hadar and Klingons both maturate real quick, then she could have, done a streamline version of the full course load and graduated on that campus weeks ago?

 

[Detached Nacelle]

The war college does explain the different uniforms we've seen since DSC season 3.

 

[Mudd]

There's a War College because the olds writing this show think friction with the ROTC kids is a campus thing.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

The war college does explain the different uniforms we've seen since DSC season 3.

Everyone attended the War College prior to Disco Season 4, even those wearing standard duty uniforms. The uniform Nhan is wearing belongs to Federation Security. Based on how Nhan describes it, it sounds like Fed Security was a combination of marines/black ops.

 

[Michael]

I don’t think I have anything helpful to add to the discussion about the War College, but to say that I want to know more about what Dzolo’s whole deal is and why she’s so angry all the time. Would be nice to learn more about her background at some point …

Also, coral-skinned glitter girl next to her. I need details, damnit!

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Not specifically about the war college, but I noticed a distinct lack of Andorians and Tellarites in both organisations. I know there was that one Tellarite cadet in Disco season 4, but it got me wondering if both Andoria and Tellar are still yet to rejoin the Federation.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Tellar never left, which makes the absence of Tellarites very conspicuous.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I thought the WC was already there and stayed open, while SFA reopened with a new building (the Athena)

The War College wouldn't be on Earth because Earth wasn't part of the Federation until recently. Indeed, Earth was so isolated it was at war with Titan and didn't know it.

Earth left the Federation. They had the earth Defense Force. It's like asking why Germany doesn't have a Hitler Youth anymore? Starfleet did not have a "usable" fleet for a century which is why the member worlds were cut off from one another and there was little possible extensive interstellar co-operation since trade was cost prohibitive.

I'm very confused at the comparison to the Hitler Youth. My point being there was no Starfleet Academy after Earth left so that all members of Starfleet trained at the War College. We don't know where their campus was before Earth rejoined but Starfleet Academy ceased to exist between the Earth withdrawal and rejoining according to DISCO.

But Starfleet absolutely existed for the remaining Federation rump state.

It's possible that the Federation fleet is massive, even though they had no dilithium for a century. Mostly unused warp reactors, every ship was kept close to home working almost entirely on impulse to defend a planet. Of course that would be like saying that all the US Nuclear air craft carriers can still be run on coal, if the coal industry ever gets its shit back together, although I saw a US Battleship being propelled by a sail recently. That was cool.

I doubt it since the Federation only had six member worlds.

Earth rejoined the Federation a year ago. Any old War college campus is going to be non Terran.

Agreed. I feel like both of them getting campuses on the old Starfleet Academy grounds in San Fransisco implies there was some sort of conflict behind the scenes that the show doesn't mention.

 

[Shawnster]

The War College wouldn't be on Earth because Earth wasn't part of the Federation until recently. Indeed, Earth was so isolated it was at war with Titan and didn't know it.

The War College was established on Earth after Earth left the Federation. Earth had this big Ole empty campus that used to be Starfleet Academy in San Francisco. The War College was established and used the facilities that previously belonged to Starfleet Academy.

We are now watching Starfleet Academy being re-established on Earth. The entire Academy is the USS Athena. The ship landed literally next door to the War College. They share the same grounds and no doubt both claim a common heritage to pre-burn Starfleet.

The two schools are currently operating independently. Their relationship seems to be sister schools. Perhaps, given time, they will integrate into one school some day. Right now, however, they are separate schools.

Adira Tal is a graduate of the War College.

 

[The Wormhole]

The War College was established on Earth after Earth left the Federation. Earth had this big Ole empty campus that used to be Starfleet Academy in San Francisco. The War College was established and used the facilities that previously belonged to Starfleet Academy.

We are now watching Starfleet Academy being re-established on Earth. The entire Academy is the USS Athena. The ship landed literally next door to the War College. They share the same grounds and no doubt both claim a common heritage to pre-burn Starfleet.

The two schools are currently operating independently. Their relationship seems to be sister schools. Perhaps, given time, they will integrate into one school some day. Right now, however, they are separate schools.

Adira Tal is a graduate of the War College.

Well, no, the War College is strictly a Starfleet thing, as reflected on the fact that Lura Thok is the only canonical graduate of the War College besides Kelrec, obviously. We don't know how the EDF trained its officers, or where those training facilities were located.

Regardless, I was not under the impression Adira Tal as an officer when they were serving in the EDF, which means they likely weren't a War College graduate, or whatever the EDF's officer training school was called. They were commissioned as a Starfleet officer by virtue of the Tal Symbiont's knowledge.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Well, no, the War College is strictly a Starfleet thing, as reflected on the fact that Lura Thok is the only canonical graduate of the War College besides Kelrec, obviously. We don't know how the EDF trained its officers, or where those training facilities were located.

Regardless, I was not under the impression Adira Tal as an officer when they were serving in the EDF, which means they likely weren't a War College graduate, or whatever the EDF's officer training school was called. They were commissioned as a Starfleet officer by virtue of the Tal Symbiont's knowledge.

I agree with most of this except for that part at the very end. They couldn't access the Symbionts memories until meeting with the Trill Guardian.

 

[The Wormhole]

I agree with most of this except for that part at the very end. They couldn't access the Symbionts memories until meeting with the Trill Guardian.

And Adira wasn't actually commissioned as a Starfleet officer until the final scene of Disco's S3 finale. They continued to wear the EDF uniform right up until that point. Granted, that's easy to overlook since the EDF uniform looks similar to the blue 23rd century Starfleet uniforms Disco's crew continued to wear until that very scene, but nonetheless, Adira was wearing the EDF uniform and not a Starfleet uniform throughout the third season.

 

[Holomedicus]

I'm of the view that the War College was the post-Burn Starfleet's response to the mass secessions from the Federation. The Academy was closed down - an action made easier by the fact that Earth itself seceded from the Federation (and probably a good chunk of these other satellite campuses that existed somewhere), and with the rump Federation facing the new state of play in the galaxy, they went all in on the 'Starfleet as a military' side of that particular debate. (Though it does beg the question - you don't name an institution the War College unless you're expecting to fight a lot of wars... I do wonder who the Federation went to war with, because otherwise the name of the replacement Academy sounds needlessly aggressive even for the post-Burn Starfleet.)

Incidentally, when Captain Ake flicks through the bridge crew's files on the way to the Athena, all of them were educated at the War College. So it seems that the War College essentially was the only game in town for formally training Starfleet officer candidates, at least until the moribund Academy got re-established. And with the Academy's prospects uncertain in its early period (not everyone is bought into the ethos that Captain Ake is trying to instill in the next generation of Starfleet officers), it makes sense to keep the War Academy active and operating as a sister institution just in case the Academy experiment fails. If it succeeds, however, there may end up being talk of merging the War College back into the Academy. Keeping both institutions on the same campus is probably a deliberate move to prepare the ground to integrate the two institutions should that become a policy. Even if they don't merge and remain independent, there is virtue in having the two schools co-exist on the same campus given the cross-training and interoperability possibilities. In short, they can still learn from each other by co-existing together... at least until one takes over the other (if that ever happens).

 

[Turtletrekker]

That Vulcan professor in the second episode, who I hope we see more of, spoke of certain courses being dropped from the curriculum after The Burn when Starfleet's priorities shifted from exploration to defense. I saw that as being indicative of the shift from Academy to War College.

 

[Tuskin38]

The War College was established on Earth after Earth left the Federation.

It wasn't.

They specifically say in Episode 2 that the War College replaced Starfleet Academy during the Burn.
Starfleet officers trained after the Burn were trained at the War College.

 

[Shawnster]

Granted, that's easy to overlook since the EDF uniform looks similar to the blue 23rd century Starfleet uniforms Disco's crew continued to wear until that very scene, but nonetheless,

Or that they are similar to the War College uniforms. My mistake

It wasn't.

They specifically say in Episode 2 that the War College replaced Starfleet Academy during the Burn.
Starfleet officers trained after the Burn were trained at the War College.

Looks like I need to re-watch the episode.

Well, no, the War College is strictly a Starfleet thing, as reflected on the fact that Lura Thok is the only canonical graduate of the War College besides Kelrec, obviously.

Was this established in an episode?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don’t think I have anything helpful to add to the discussion about the War College, but to say that I want to know more about what Dzolo’s whole deal is and why she’s so angry all the time. Would be nice to learn more about her background at some point …

Also, coral-skinned glitter girl next to her. I need details, damnit!

View attachment 51512

OOOh, they got those stripy things on their shoulders like in the Kelvin Universe.