Spoilers The Walking Dead: the 11th and final season

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by TREK_GOD_1, Aug 15, 2021.

  1. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Initially, I thought the idea of Daryl joining up with the Reapers felt like the Claimers' arc, but in the case of Joe's gang, Daryl happened to run into them, and was only marginally involved just out of sense of survival.

    5B's "Them" (his first appearance) and yes he's come a long way from the nervous "recruiter" he used to be.

    Yeah, I hope Negan's end is not predictable--in other words, it has nothing to do with the Maggie side of things, including Hershel. Since I doubt the showrunners will have him walk off into the sunset, a Negan death might com as a result of his longing for the man he was when his wife was alive (well, the Negan of the early ZA), and that would be a motivator to want his life of evil (more than he would ever be able to atone for) to come to an end while dealing with the series' final threat.

    That, or perhaps the series will use another flash-foward to see an elderly Negan as an accepted part of the community, in a manner similar to Carl's dream.


    Unless the Commonwealth will deal with the Reapers. Eh, but if Daryl only counts 20 members, it would make the Alexandria characters appear weak for not being to handle 20 people--unless the Reapers have heavy duty military weapons on their side.
     
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  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Definitely a creepy horror movie-esque episode, the feral humans in the house alone were downright terrifying. I also like how when we have scenes from Connie's perspective, there was absolutely no sound at all, not even the background music. Certainly a very memorable and unique episode.
     
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  3. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As far as being a "Halloween/horror" episode, in and of itself, was very good.. My wife also noted the silence during some of Connie's scenes, and they were good...the music ALSO felt just like a horror film.

    My only nitpick would be that would such people still be alive 10 years into the apocalypse? The Wolves were relatiely early on, and the WHisperers actually had a functioning (albeit dysfunctional) society that worked in rhythms.

    With Darryl's story...it DOES seem repetitve. Yeah, some slight differences, but still feels rinse and repeat. Yeah, Darryl goes pretty far in hurting Maggie's friend (in order to try to save him), and it might backfire. But nobody is expecting him to die to turn traitor (not sur eif this is supposed to set up the Darryl and Carol show, IF that is still happening).

    I would really like Darryl's reaction to Virgil saving Connie, and how he treats him. Also, i wonder if Carol will treat VIrgil like Morgan (who had a similar bout with "goign crazy" before rejoining society). And of course, when he talks about Michonne (which he said out loud to Connie...but that was it. he SAID it , not wrote or signed her name)

    With Aaron... i am not super happy with his development, though it can make sense... i recall him being retty idealistic when he first met our crew, as he recruited for ALexandria with relatively little problem (they hadn't encountered the Saviors at that point, right?)

    With the Commonwealth.... do you think they will have any connection/cnflict with the CRM on World of the Walking Dead/Fear? They seem to be in a pocket between Nebraska and New York, right? So it would be weird if World characters avoided the COmmonwealth. This seemed most plausible and interesting for me.

    Great casting for Yumiko's brother..


    And my last random thought -- SO Fear and World are coming back, but MOSTLY together? SO they think WOrld is THAT weak that it can't finish on its own?
     
  4. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think once both of those are finished that TWD:OG will have another batch of episodes.
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think it has more to do with scheduling. They want all these episodes to air in 2021 but because the pandemic threw a mighty wrench into everything, the only way they can accommodate that is by having two shows air simultaneously. After all, the original plan for 2020 had there been no pandemic was to start airing the second half of Walking Dead at the end of February, then jump right onto World Beyond in April, which would set things up for season 6 of Fear in June and finally season 11 of Walking Dead in the fall. But now everything is tits up and they're just trying to meet their quotas the best they can
    IIRC, the second season of World Beyond and the first half of season 7 of Fear should finish up end of November or early December. I suspect there will then be a break until February when the second batch of TWDS11 will start. They may hold off until late February this year, since there's going to be Winter Olympics in February. Purely baseless speculation of course, and I am prepared to eat there words should I be proven wrong.
     
  6. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's an interesting point, and being cannibals, they would need to do more than huddle in that house, so how were they able to "spider" around and catch live humans..and any normal human seeing them would beat a path away from them like a bat out of Hell. Perhaps they were eating walkers, too, but I cannot imagine they would live long doing that.

    The showrunners have still failed to explain why Daryl and Carol would leave everyone behind? Unless the others end up living with / under the protection of the Commonwealth, the Alexandrians would be too bad off to just abandon.

    How is Virgil still alive after what one of the men-things did to his back?

    Alexandria--while run by Deanna, et al., had a trading relationship with Hilltop, and we know they had been subjected to The Saviors' terrorism, so I would say early Aaron may have been aware of The Saviors to some degree. Theoretically, his recruitment drive may have been a way to build numbers against what was believed to be a coming threat.

    The question is what would be the basis for their conflict? TWD franchise has run its share (and then some) of community / group wars, and its getting a bit tiresome, so in order for a Commonwealth vs _____ fight to jump off, there needs to be a legitimate reason for it, not just a power struggle, or acts motivated by revenge.
     
  7. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Walking Dead
    Season 11 - Episode 7 - "Promises Broken"


    Daryl & The Reapers: Daryl spots one of the Reapers storing vegetables in a locked shed, and tries to warm up to him, but is distracted by the return of a patrol. Pope chews out the men for failing to find their enemies, and as Leah takes responsibility for recent issues, Pope bitterly sends her off to continue to search with Daryl. Daryl questions why Pope is looking for another potential camp when he's living in one with walls and food; Leah is short with answers, but lets Daryl know that Pope wont be satisfied until the enemies are dead.

    They come across a panicking man saying he was hunting for food on behalf of his injured wife; while Daryl plays his part by threatening the man, Leah radios Pope for instructions on how to deal with the survivor, and in no surprise, he tells Leah to kill the man.

    Following the man to a building, Leah and Daryl discover the man was being truthful: he has a son and a wife who is dying from a bite. Leah beings to cry as she tells the man to take his son and never return to the area. Saying their goodbyes, the father and son leave, but Leah cannot bring herself to kill the woman, leaving it Daryl to use his crossbow on her. Covering the woman's body, he turns to Leah, saying he needs to tell her something (SEE NOTES), just as Pope radios Leah to return. Leah will give credit for killing "everyone" to Daryl, to bolster his status among the Reapers.

    Commonwealth:
    While Yumiko tries to learn all she can about the Commonwealth, Eugene, Ezekiel, Princess and Fake Stephanie are punished (for using the radio equipment) with clearing out empty buildings full of walkers. Along the way, Ezekiel's cough worsens, under the watchful eye of Mercer and his guards.
    While working, a young man and woman decked out in pampered preppie clothes walk by with a picnic basket, complaining to Mercer about the odor of / having to see Eugene and Company.

    Yumiko continues to bicker with her brother, incessantly reminding him of the joy he once experienced from being a surgeon (for himself, not an apparently controlling father), but he pleads with her to stop bringing up the past and accept that he's happy with his life. Further, he begs her to never mention his past profession to any Commonwealth resident. He makes a class distinction between himself and his sister, once he learns that she's due for a meeting with Pamela Milton. Before he can continue, soldiers grab Tomi and haul him off, with the man blurting out his innocence...

    Later, Yumiko finds and grills Lance Hornsby about the whereabouts of her brother and her friends. Hornsby--ever the manipulator--promises he can help Yumiko's community and set her friends free, but now that she's overstepped his authority by scheduling a meeting with Milton, he suggests that one day, he may need some favors for her, now that she's one of the people in "high places."

    A happy, medically treated Ezekiel returns with Hornsby, who asks Fake Stephanie to take Eugene to another area for walker clean-up, while he gives Ezekiel and Princess a new job...

    Elsewhere, the preppie couple are too busy kissing to notice a group of walkers approaching; Eugene and Fake Stephanie go into action and kill the walkers, but preppie man is completely ungrateful and insulting; Eugene is having none of that BS, so he punches the preppie--just as Hornsby, Mercer and soldiers show up. The preppie is obviously someone occupying the seat of privilege, as he gets in Mercer's face demanding to know why he was not around to deal with the walkers. Preppie man whines about Eugene's punch, which sends Hornsby into a paranoid fit, Fake Stephanie into an apologetic one, as soldiers surround Eugene...

    Yumiko waits for her meeting with Pamela Milton (speaking to Real Stephanie, who asks about her friends), but its cancelled once she learns her son was attacked. Yes, the preppie man is Milton's boy. Locked in a cell, Hornsby makes a one-way offer: Eugene will be released from prison if he reveals Alexandria's location. An anguished Eugene eventually asks Hornsby to wait...

    Maggie, Gabriel, Negan and Elijah : Negan argues with Maggie about returning to Alexandria; although Maggie says they do not need him, Negan dismisses her comment (and its telling that Father Gabriel and Elijah did not support her opinion). Negan promises to continue heading toward their stolen compound which is now Reaper territory (for food and revenge) only if Maggie agrees the act will make them "even" & she will bring an end to her plan to kill him. Initially, Maggie rejects this idea, but realizes she needs Negan's help...but not before asking Negan if he really accepts a promise from her.

    Maggie kills a walker--identified as a friend of Elijah's sister, which instantly depresses Elijah, then riggers feelings of revenge--aimed squarely at Pope. Father Gabriel performs a funeral ceremony (SEE NOTES) over the burial of this friend-turned-walker, then heads off to spy on the Reapers, with the order to kill any he finds on their own. Meanwhile, Negan teaches Maggie how to make a Whisperer mask from a group of captured walkers (SEE NOTES) for the purpose of leading a herd to the Reapers' compound...

    Gabriel spies on the Reaper compound, and tracks Mancea--their "pastor"--to a graveyard. Mancea senses the presence of something and arms himself, while asking God for guidance before walking away. Gabriel listens to the man, but holds his position, not knowing if he has been noticed.

    By now, Negan has taught Maggie how to wear a walker mask and blend in, then lead walkers; Elijah wonders if she will keep her promise to Negan, but all she can say is she will try. Later, Maggie and Negan have a heart-to-heart, where Maggie tries to lay all bad behavior on Negan, but he reminds her that the men Rick's group killed at the satellite station had friends and girlfriends who looked to him to explain why they were killed. Maggie argues that there were no families killed, but he points out that he knows who Gracie is (the daughter of one of the killed Saviors).

    When she asks if could do it all over again, would he change anything, he says yes...meaning he would have killed all of Rick's group instead of two. Maggie demands to know why he's saying that to her, only for Negan to point out that he's being honest. Gabriel returns, but lies, saying he did not see anyone (SEE NOTES).

    Hours later, Maggie's group--all wearing walker masks--cover the woods, and industrial areas, doing the memory of Alpha proud by building a massive walker herd for use against the Reaper compound. As the group is walking to the next destination, Elijah discovers his sister is a walker. Struggling not to break down and expose himself to the walkers is only possible as Maggie holds his hand, leading an ever-growing army of walkers..

    NOTES:
    Despite Father Gabriel telling a wounded Reaper that "God's not here anymore," he still believes, and apparently, Maggie does too, as she added her "amen" at the end of Gabriel's prayer.

    The second Father Gabriel lied about not seeing any Reapers, I imagined he was sympathetic toward Mancea being a religious man. With all of the spoiler talk flying around in social media about who will be one of the big deaths of the season, I hate to admit that Gabriel might be on the chopping block, as I can see him trying to infiltrate the Reaper compound and appeal to Mancea, only to be betrayed and murdered by Pope.
    I would really hate to see Gabriel killed off, but his actions in this episode--plus Rosita having dreams about Abraham trying to tell her something...all combined, it paints a bleak picture for Gabriel.

    Negan held on to his walker mask for sentimental and practical reasons. As disgusting as the idea of wearing the skin of the dead is, one cannot argue with the practical side of his reasoning.

    The teasers for this episode had Negan saying he would do things differently if he had it to do all over again, but I'm sure audiences were not expecting him to say he would have killed all of Rick's group. Rarely is a villain ever given so many faces and range of thought,and brutal, dark honesty (e.g., you will not find that in most modern day superhero movies and TV series), which undoubtedly tracks with the way real people think. Its yet another great character study of Negan and Maggie, but when one thinks of how angry she was that Negan revealed his alternate life plans, the title of this episode might apply to Maggie more than anyone would suspect.

    What was Daryl going to say to Leah? Who knows, but there's no way he can trust her enough to tip her off about anything. For all he knows, her tears could have been an act...


    GRADE: A+.
     
  8. Mark de Vries

    Mark de Vries Commodore Commodore

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    I'm starting to suspect there is no Pamela Milton at all. The episode with her alleged son seems like an act put up to guide Eugene and the others into positions and actions where the Commonwealth can get what they want/need. The whole of the Commonwealth, what we've seen of it at least, comes across as fake.

    Who's running that show then? Hornsby perhaps, and I'm still not entirely sure what to think of Mercer. Real Stephanie could also be a way towards the truth. She seems nervous, first towards Eugene at the ice cream cart and in this episode towards Yumiko, and unsure about her role.

    I'm entirely unfamiliar with the comic books, so what I am writing here could be laughably far from the mark, but we'll see.

    Is the walker herd a threat for Pope and his merry men? I suspect only because they have the greater number. But Maggie and Negan have a man on the inside, so that could be to their advantage. Survivors of that inevitable confrontation? Daryl, Maggie, Negan, Leah, sustpecting Trek_God_1 is right, not Father Gabriel...
     
  9. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Writers need to move the plot forward, but one would think (in-universe) that Eugene and the others would tone down their confrontational behavior when hosted by a stronger group who punish those who do not get on board with their demands. Eugene punching Milton's son was out of character for him, since in nearly all other scenes of his dealing with the Commonealth, he's almost crying or extremely paranoid.

    Mercer being mistreated by Milton's son would seem to hint the possibility that he may be "late" again if the son finds himself in trouble. I cannot see the pampered son surviving whatever conflict springs up to end the series.

    Perhaps...

    Yeah, I hope the social media chatter has been incorrect and Gabriel survives. It would be screwed up for the character to make so many changes in his life/personalty only to end up a victim as the series--and its plots--wrap up.
     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You must not watch Talking Dead either. But yes, Pamela Milton is real, she was a character in the comics, though admittedly the show is taking much longer to introduce her than the comics did. But relevant to the show, it has been publicly announced that an actress has been cast, there are photos around of her, which have been seen on Talking Dead. Also, on this week's Talking Dead they had the actor who plays Hornsby discussing the character's backstory and that he knew Pamela Milton before the apocalypse. From how he describes it, she really was a Big Deal before the apocalypse.
    I find it interesting how that scene is different in the show from how it played out in the comics. In the comics, it seemed like it really was just Mercer slipping up and making a mistake. But in the show, particularly afterwards when Hornsby is explaining to Eugene about "you could have been the hero who saved the Governor's son..." has me wondering, did Hornsby and and Mercer intentionally allow Walkers to approach Sebastian and his girlfriend thinking either Eugene saves the day and gets to be a hero, or maybe Sebastian gets what's coming to him? I guess, both kind of happened.
     
  11. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It could have been both; if Eugene did not step up, Sebastian either fights for his life (heh), or dies. If Eugene steps up, then letting him (and the others) into the Commonwealth might help Hornsby with another position (payback) or level of control. The one thing I do not want to see is TV Sebastian play out the comic version's fate. TWD-TV has altered the lives of many comic characters before (often with superior results to the comic), so the same treatment can applied to Sebastian.
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, I don't even see how Sebastian in the show could do that particular thing he did in the comics. There are too many differences at this point.
     
  13. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Anyone still watching world beyond?
     
  14. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not really. Unless there's an announcement about very major connection to the Rick movies and/ or forthcoming 11B of TWD (I don't consider Anne/Jadis to be that for the moment), I can skip it.
     
  15. DarrenTR1970

    DarrenTR1970 Captain Captain

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    The World Beyond is only scheduled to run two seasons of ten episodes each, then lead into the Rick Grimes movies. I don't know how much COVID may have changed plans.
    I know that I'm waiting for the second season to finish airing and come out on DVD before I get/watch the first season because I have a feeling they'll package both seasons together; that way I won't have to double dip.
     
  16. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah well given that it seems that we are learning the CRM's motivations its unclear as to why they have allowed the Commonwealth to exist... And you'd think a nuclear submarine would interest them greatly (FTWD). What those motivations seem to be from TWB:
    whenever a community gets advanced enough, the CRM destroy it and take all the tech so they can use it to keep working on a cure.
     
  17. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Viewership is up from last week's series low - 4th lowest in series history instead. And on world the ratings are up from last year's finale as well - 6th most viewed out of 11 episodes. IMDB seems to suggest that people still don't like it though, so series lows are coming.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  18. Mark de Vries

    Mark de Vries Commodore Commodore

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    I don't. Just the series for me :)

    I'm curious to see how the Commonwealth plot plays out. I think they're doing a fine job this season to keep viewers guessing.

    And about Eugene's uncharacteristic behaviour, that may be due to his killing walkers all day long, and the presence of Fake Stephanie. This is what he knows, killing walkers to survive, even if he's hardly the greatest fighter. The fake world of the Commonwealth is on the one hand familiar, so like the world that's gone, but I think Eugene, Miko and Ezekiel have outgrown that. Eugene steps up to confront someone, Miko is almost antagonistic in getting what she wants, and Ezekiel... well, he was almost giddy about being treated and getting lollipops for everyone... Uncharacteristic, but in another direction.

    The question is, can they change their behaviour to get more out of their time in the Commonwealth? I mean, they're just begging for some kind of reckoning this way.
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    According to reports, the episodes are breaking viewership records on AMC+. With that in mind it's not really surprising that broadcasts of those same episodes a week later aren't doing so well in the ratings.
     
  20. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah they're pushing AMC plus much harder this year.