And I am happy she named her son Herschel. A way to keep the spirit of a loved one alive, and I think it will be a reminder to Maggie of the kind of person her dad was, and Glenn. Maybe enough of a reminder to prevent her from going a Governor route in Hilltop.
Spoilers The Walking Dead - Season 9 discussion and spoilers
- Thread starter TREK_GOD_1
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Ok, I'll explain. Networks get paid some percentage by ad companies for ads viewed on DVR (they are designed so that viewers would know what is being advertised even when fast forwarding through them). Thus, the networks get some revenue for live +3 days and a bit from live +5 days. Then there are auxiliary sales, such as iTunes/Amazon, and physical media sales, and whatever Netflix pays for shows. And finally, there are worldwide numbers to consider.
Having said all that, the live ratings still seem to be by far the strongest factor in determining cancellation/renewal, so we can assume its the bulk of the revenue.
And a bit of a nice touch in the real world too, since the actor passed away.
He may have had it coming, but there's still a right way and a wrong way to do things. Maggie should have set up a trial, let everyone have their say, and abided by the outcome. Here she was just killing Gregory because she couldn't kill Negan.
Yes, exactly.
That's exactly why dictators perform public executions. It's a message to their subjects about what will happen if they don't stay in line.
Yes, but some series of punishments would have to be in place, and what would they be? Exile? Execution? Hard labor at some remote outpost (which would not be wise in Gregory's case, since he would try to escape--even if under guard)--what? Pre-election, Gregory was given chance after chance to fly straight, but he refused to do so, plotting and back-stabbing at ever opportunity. His latest act was trying to set Maggie up to be killed, so what should have happened to Gregory?
Or, say they had a vote to decide his fate, and that was to let him roam free at Hilltop. Wise? Safe? I doubt anyone would accept that vote, so there's not many options left to end a neverending threat. In the past, I've argued against arbitrary brutality (which has cost Rick's group blood in one way or another), but Maggie actually handled things with patience before, during and after the war, and Gregory still played the snake. I believe she had no choice.
Would you say the same of the Abraham Lincoln assassination conspirators who were executed in public?
It's a bit brutal, and not a great look, but when a community is that small, I'd argue that you really don't have many choices.
-Exiling him is easiest, but he's 100% the type that would lurk around waiting for a chance to hurt you if he didn't immediately get bitten. You'd be asleep when he leads some new randoms there, or he's got a trap set up when you're out on a run, etc. Bad idea to let chaotic elements roam free.
-There's the forgiveness/pardon/second chance route, but they've already done that (repeatedly) with him and it's not panning out.
-they don't really have the resources for keeping him prisoner, despite what they are doing with Neegan. Community is small enough that everyone has to pull their weight, can't have a person consuming resources that's bringing nothing to the table. And gives him chances to become a martyr, rallying cry, or just talk to people and ferment dissent.
-Or you just take the ethics hit and kill him, preferably quickly/painlessly as possible, and in the open as opposed to trying to hide it. It's at least an example that you tried, but the rules are important and can't have people working against the community (repeatedly). Not going to make you many friends, but gotta at least hope the community sees it as Him against Us, and not as a leader overstepping or being malicious.
My question is what happened to the guy that tried to kill Maggie? His hands were tied up at the end, but they didn't take it beyond that. I'd have assumed she'd have had to hang him too, to put an end to it, and can't really kill the guy that talked about murder but pardon the attempted murderer (although first offense, caught up in grief, maybe you try the short leash?). If you were going to hang him, you'd have done it as a double, not one at a time. gives you too long to deal with reactions or second thoughts, lets the crowd turn on you. Hang them together or just Gregory. So I guess he's getting probation?
-Exiling him is easiest, but he's 100% the type that would lurk around waiting for a chance to hurt you if he didn't immediately get bitten. You'd be asleep when he leads some new randoms there, or he's got a trap set up when you're out on a run, etc. Bad idea to let chaotic elements roam free.
-There's the forgiveness/pardon/second chance route, but they've already done that (repeatedly) with him and it's not panning out.
-they don't really have the resources for keeping him prisoner, despite what they are doing with Neegan. Community is small enough that everyone has to pull their weight, can't have a person consuming resources that's bringing nothing to the table. And gives him chances to become a martyr, rallying cry, or just talk to people and ferment dissent.
-Or you just take the ethics hit and kill him, preferably quickly/painlessly as possible, and in the open as opposed to trying to hide it. It's at least an example that you tried, but the rules are important and can't have people working against the community (repeatedly). Not going to make you many friends, but gotta at least hope the community sees it as Him against Us, and not as a leader overstepping or being malicious.
My question is what happened to the guy that tried to kill Maggie? His hands were tied up at the end, but they didn't take it beyond that. I'd have assumed she'd have had to hang him too, to put an end to it, and can't really kill the guy that talked about murder but pardon the attempted murderer (although first offense, caught up in grief, maybe you try the short leash?). If you were going to hang him, you'd have done it as a double, not one at a time. gives you too long to deal with reactions or second thoughts, lets the crowd turn on you. Hang them together or just Gregory. So I guess he's getting probation?
I think Earl was his name.
My thinking is the same, that he was drunk and very grief stricken. He was primed to be manipulated by Gregory. Maggie likely will keep him on a short leash for a while, but he is not the troublemaker Gregory was.
Plus, he is useful and apprentices others in blacksmithing, if I remember right.
My thinking is the same, that he was drunk and very grief stricken. He was primed to be manipulated by Gregory. Maggie likely will keep him on a short leash for a while, but he is not the troublemaker Gregory was.
Plus, he is useful and apprentices others in blacksmithing, if I remember right.
All that, and I know the King falling through the "glass" was for the sake of drama, and I admit it worked in that regard, as I was worried they were going to kill him off after building up his relationship with Carol, but...
They probably shouldn't have shown the glass floor from a high angle that made it perfectly obvious that they could have just walked around the edge of it from the stairs and just pulled the wagon across by rope without actually standing on the glass itself, which you rightly point out would never have broken anyway.
Plus, I know they don't have internet or Learning Annex courses any more, but shouldn't they have worked out how to build their own wagons by this point, so they don't have to go on a dangerous quest to take a museum Conestoga from DC? They've got that one crappy one with tires on it that they obviously built, so why not just build a better one? You don't have to worry as much about the craftsmanship of the wheels when you can just borrow tires and axles from old busted cars. And they have a factory for fabrication now.
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Yep.
...and Alexandria only has one because Morgan built it as an option to killing (and probably for himself, if he went nuts again). Apprently, none of the survivors ever considered that a jail was necessary, since the original leaders of the ASZ exiled people instead of confining or executing them.
So far, no one (on screen) has mentioned how many of the Hilltop residents are new, but so many were from the Saviors that it would rather hypocritical of them to judge Maggie after living under the psychotic, violent fits of "control" of Negan and Simon for so long.
He was the grieving, drunk father, so Maggie might be a bit more merciful toward him--or let him know that he was close to not only getting himself killed, but his angry wife, by association.
yeah.... The 'back to basics' imagery works well for the show, but definitely all of the parts are there to make one from cars. Grab a couple axles from a truck, and then literally just have to be able to make a rectangle out of wood and you've got a more modern one than what they took. Can even get cute and add the shocks/struts
Glad they are starting to move past the old world stuff, and admitting cars and gas are pretty much done, but even non-functional, they are an awesome source of materials. Blacksmithing sounds nice, but you've got unlimited supplies of nicely refined steel that you just need to cut or sharpen, no forge required. S.M. Stirling made heavy use of them in his Emberverse series, but infinite amount of swords and machetes available for almost no effort in the leaf springs of cars/trucks, perfect for slicing up zombies, French fries, and the occasional raiders...
Actually, I thought they got the carriage so that they could transport the plow? That sorta made sense to me, but there really should've been enough room for all their stuff anyway. OTOH, the other trailer disappeared on the way back, so maybe it was full of all the other stuff they had.
And I'm guessing they figured on not being able to refine metals anytime soon, even within their own generation. That's fine, but I'm wondering what sort of planning they have in place to deal with the loss of other technologies.
Mark
And I'm guessing they figured on not being able to refine metals anytime soon, even within their own generation. That's fine, but I'm wondering what sort of planning they have in place to deal with the loss of other technologies.
Mark
Doesn't matter, as long as there was some kind of due process. They had an election, so why don't they have some kind of court to resolve disputes? It's been eighteen months-- even if there hasn't been an attempted murder, there's been fights and thefts and other conflicts. As it is, you've got Maggie executing her only real political rival after assuming that he is behind an assassination attempt-- even if she's right, it's the wrong thing to do and it's going to come back to haunt her (at least it would in real life). The irony is that she was gung ho to execute Gregory because she can't kill Negan-- but she's doing exactly what Negan would have done. You become what you hate.
Courts sometimes make unpopular decisions. In this case, they probably would have done pretty much the same as Maggie, but then her actions would have had legitimacy.
Of course. Making a public spectacle of executions, especially of political conspirators, is barbaric.
I liked it, it did feel different but a lot of the old tensions are clearly bubbling under the surface. How many chances has Gregory had now? And did I hear right, he'd reinvented himself as some kind of preacher? I don't know what Maggie's other options were short of building a prison. Can't exile him, he'd weasel his way into leading another group and come back, can't have him under house arrest because he'll keep whispering in everyone's ears...
Rick really should have killed Negan, I get that he's a symbol of a new way of doing things, but I can't see them keeping him prisoner forever, and you have the same issue as Gregory in that he's a master manipulator.
I still can't believe the network are planning for Daryl to take Rick's place when Lincoln goes. He's just not a leader, the character would literally just prefer to be off on his own on his bike. Unless Rick's death(?) will spur him into a radical character change.
It was very nice to see them doing more to forge a new kind of society, with the plough and all.
On the downside, the false drama of the glass floor, and the narrative cheat of "hey here's a guy you've never met before to get sad about cos he died".
Rick really should have killed Negan, I get that he's a symbol of a new way of doing things, but I can't see them keeping him prisoner forever, and you have the same issue as Gregory in that he's a master manipulator.
I still can't believe the network are planning for Daryl to take Rick's place when Lincoln goes. He's just not a leader, the character would literally just prefer to be off on his own on his bike. Unless Rick's death(?) will spur him into a radical character change.
It was very nice to see them doing more to forge a new kind of society, with the plough and all.
On the downside, the false drama of the glass floor, and the narrative cheat of "hey here's a guy you've never met before to get sad about cos he died".
If not exile as in being cut loose, I wonder if they could have simply sent him off to one of the other places like Alexrandia or The Kingdom. A great deal of the Gregory conflict came from the fact that he use to be in charge and has a personal issue with Maggie. Not so sure he would be that much of a problem in a different location were he doesn't know anyone there all that much. Heck him out their doing manual labor in building the bridge would also remove the issue. I'm kind of surprised he was even allowed to enter a election. You would think anyone who use to be locked up in that fence last year would not be eligible.
Jason
Jason
Sure, it will come back to haunt her--either with one of the ex-Saviors (through her son, perhaps), or her being aggressive toward one of the new (unseen) communities, but she was forced to be judge and jury in this case, since Gregory's been a problem since the moment they met, and through his back-stabbing/plotting may have caused many of the deaths suffered by the heroes,
Rick made that argument about not being a "Governor" (from season three's "This Sorrowful Life"), but he had the "luxury" of not suffering the loss of any of his core group at the hands of the Governor up to that point. Maggie was not so fortunate with Gregory.
It may not be civilized, but in the case of the Lincoln conspirators, the executions sent a message, and considering the gravity of the crime(s), and the soaring emotions around it all, its not as if there was a public outcry to just spirit them away for some isolated execution. People wanted to see those who changed history pay the ultimate price. In TWD's case, Maggie almost lost her life to a repeat offender--and there's still no telling if baby Hershel was seriously injured.
The problem is that everyone--Rick, Michonne, Carol, Ezekiel--everyone all know what Gregory did to each community by his scheming with Negan, so he made himself a universal pariah.
Rick: what happened?
Maggie: Well we-...
Rick: You get it straightened out?
Maggie: No, we had a problem... and uh, we tried to do everything we could.
Rick: What d'you mean?
Maggie: Well, you know what I mean. He's gone, and we couldn't do nothing about it.
[pause]
Maggie: That's it.
Rick: What d'you mean? What d'you mean? Uh...
Maggie: He's gone. Uh, he's gone.
[pause]
Maggie: And that's it.
Maggie: Well we-...
Rick: You get it straightened out?
Maggie: No, we had a problem... and uh, we tried to do everything we could.
Rick: What d'you mean?
Maggie: Well, you know what I mean. He's gone, and we couldn't do nothing about it.
[pause]
Maggie: That's it.
Rick: What d'you mean? What d'you mean? Uh...
Maggie: He's gone. Uh, he's gone.
[pause]
Maggie: And that's it.
..The Walking Dead through the filter of Goodfellas, but you won't see Rick kick a phone booth (or anything else) in anguish...
Well, the fact that he lunged at her with a knife when she confronted him afterwards isn't exactly selling his innocence.
My theory is Maggie will be hanged, maybe in the mid-season final. A kind of full-circle arc. The question is when RIck and Maggie leave the show and both communties still exist who will take charge then. Michonne is a easy choice for "Alexandria" but I am not sure about the Hilltop. Jesus makes since but not sure if he is a important enough character and if Darryl is the star you got to wonder what he will be doing. Maybe he will be like Clint Eastwood sort if just drifting around on his bike going from place to place helping each place, with a crew as well.
Jason
Jason
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