The Walking Dead Season 6 Discussion

[Arrrrgggh]

Civilization would take a long long time to recover in any case, since the WD world is now in a modern day equivalent of the Dark Ages.

Only because it's too dangerous due to the zombies. That's still the main thing holding them back, as if they had unrestricted access to the world, they could easily rebuild since most of the physical infrastructure is still there. Sure, there'd still be the balkanization and warlord issues to contend with, but that would escalate quickly with full access to power, transportation, medicine, global communication, and weapons, eventually reaching some degree of equilibrum not long after.

So sure it would take a few decades -- one or two generations at most -- or so for things to start returning to normal, that's not exactly a "long long time" by any real measure.

It's not like they lost all their technology and knowledge. It's just mostly inaccessible right now.

 

[sojourner]

There's not enough population left to sustain a modern level of technology. They would have to start stockpiling high technology items now while cranking out babies. Even in the best of circumstances it would take probably 100 years to regain the man power to rebuild to 1950's level of development. You need the man power to run the industries that supply the industries that supply the industries.

 

[Starkers]

There's not enough population left to sustain a modern level of technology. They would have to start stockpiling high technology items now while cranking out babies. Even in the best of circumstances it would take probably 100 years to regain the man power to rebuild to 1950's level of development. You need the man power to run the industries that supply the industries that supply the industries.

Yeah, and even then all the high tech stuff will eventually break and I doubt society would be in a position to replace them. How much effort goes into modern cars, computers etc. Even most drugs take an awful lot of synthesising. I think even a 1950s level of development might be too much for 100 years after the end of the world. Like you say it's the industries that supply the industries etc., but also its the export/import trade because we rely on so much that comes from other countries. After 100 years I'd suggest some sort of 19th Century+ state of development, a sort of early industrial state of being but with a modern, energy efficient slant and the odd bit of incongruous high technology.

As for this week's episode... Is it bad that I don't actually care if Daryl's dead? I'm sorry but the characters have been acting like such idiots the past few episodes that I'm starting to hope some of them are culled. There are Walkers Wolves and Saviours out there yet they keep blundering out into the world. Carol off on her lonesome was stupid, as was Daryl, then Rosita compounds things by leaving Glenn and Michonne, who at least were tooled up. I mean Rick and Morgan hightail it after Carol, that's Rick armed with a revolver and Morgan with a stick. Rick didn't even bother to grab and AK or something!

And just what did Carol have up her sleeve? I had to rewind and watch it again because I didn't quite believe what I'd seen the first time. It appeared to be some kind of automatic weapon but I'm not sure what it could be that you fit under her sleeve? Unless she has some kind of Q Branch built robot arm with inbuilt SMG now?

 

[sojourner]

I'd like to see an episode where they run across a group of people that have started hoarding books for future generations. A well stocked library would be essential to a rapid recovery.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

There's not enough population left to sustain a modern level of technology. They would have to start stockpiling high technology items now while cranking out babies. Even in the best of circumstances it would take probably 100 years to regain the man power to rebuild to 1950's level of development. You need the man power to run the industries that supply the industries that supply the industries.

Or you could just bring larger groups of people together rather than remaining spread out in small groups of scavengers. There's plenty of survivors, they're just spread out over a large area and warring with one another overly largely nihilistic reasons. Most of the Saviors we've met so far certainly seem to be of that mindset.

I mean, right now, Hilltop is pretty much at a colonial level, whereas Alexandria is still rocking with power, running water, firearms, and soon they'll be able to start churning out ammunition. That, alone, is way more advanced than the aforementioned dark ages, and each of those areas only have a relative handful of people.

 

[sojourner]

Even if you could manage to bring those larger groups together you still don't have the manpower to maintain our level of technological society. If you add up all the living people we've seen since the show began I doubt you'd have enough to run an automobile factory, nevermind all of the industries that would be required to feed it with materials and parts. Now, I don't think things would fall to "dark ages" levels, but it would definitely be in the 19th century for a long while. (With smatterings of still working high tech that keeps working).

 

[Arrrrgggh]

Why on earth would you need a fully-operational modern automobile factory? At most, you'd need to churn out a few dozen vehicles a year, presuming you didn't just repair or rebuild all the countless ones still available and perfectly functional. Real world Cuba pretty much proved how well that works.

You seem to be assuming that I'm saying they'd instantly turn into a world with billions of people and the demands needed of billions of people. I don't know where you came to that assumption at all. You don't need thousands upon thousands of people dedicated to doing any one task if you're just supporting a few hundred people. You also don't need video games, space shuttles, or nuclear power plants.

The zombie apocalypse didn't go around and devour all existing technology on the planet. It's all right there for the taking, with plenty of resources still available for decades thanks the aforementioned billions of people who were around beforehand. Things like food production, small oil rigs and refineries, a single small power plant, and various repair shops would be the only things that require a significant amount of manpower, and by significant I'm not talking thousands upon thousands. And, again, all the infrastructure for that stuff is still out there. It's the zombies themselves, and the hopelessness of the survivors, that's keeping them from moving up. And despite that, every time we've seen a community in the show, they've all been doing rather well considering the limited resources they had access to due to the inherent dangers of the world.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Yeah, and even then all the high tech stuff will eventually break and I doubt society would be in a position to replace them. How much effort goes into modern cars, computers etc. Even most drugs take an awful lot of synthesising. I think even a 1950s level of development might be too much for 100 years after the end of the world. Like you say it's the industries that supply the industries etc., but also its the export/import trade because we rely on so much that comes from other countries. After 100 years I'd suggest some sort of 19th Century+ state of development, a sort of early industrial state of being but with a modern, energy efficient slant and the odd bit of incongruous high technology.

Above all rebuilding interests, for long term survival, the farming culture will be the one to last with the least amount of difficulty, for time honored reasons. For those still intent on holding on to industrial creature comforts, they will only force themselves to venture into increasingly dangerous territories in search of items used to maintain that manufactured lifestyle. That does not mean farmers do not need to replace tools and/or parts for their work, but their practice is nowhere near as dependent on the metal and plastic world as ASZ.

Think of Hershel's farm--aside from occasional runs into the nearby town, they were fairly self sustaining. While Hershel initially thought a cure would restore society, the practices of his family were the best for long haul survival, as opposed to--

• the prison (constant scavenging).
• Woodbury (scavenging and theft via murder).
• Terminus (capture and murder for food).
• The Saviors (forced trade, theft and murder).

Hershel was right in trying to continue his practices at the prison, and with luck, Maggie carrying that on will (in the long run) slow down the need to expose themselves to danger for the number one survival need.

As for this week's episode... Is it bad that I don't actually care if Daryl's dead? I'm sorry but the characters have been acting like such idiots the past few episodes that I'm starting to hope some of them are culled.

I think its easy to feel that way when characters are in a holding pattern. Daryl has not had much purpose since 5B when Carol was telling him to embrace his feelings about Beth's death. Since then, he's just one of the "stars" but there for placement, other than the minor road trip /bonding with Rick (which some see as a set up to build on his alleged death).

There are Walkers Wolves and Saviours out there yet they keep blundering out into the world. Carol off on her lonesome was stupid

Not if she truly desires isolation, and this was not some part of a plot against the Saviors. Her life is her own.

as was Daryl, then Rosita compounds things by leaving Glenn and Michonne, who at least were tooled up. I mean Rick and Morgan hightail it after Carol, that's Rick armed with a revolver and Morgan with a stick. Rick didn't even bother to grab and AK or something!

Stories often require characters to leave common sense at the door in roder to create conflict. I'be never been a fan of that poor end of screenwriting 101, but I recognize why some productions use it.

And just what did Carol have up her sleeve? I had to rewind and watch it again because I didn't quite believe what I'd seen the first time. It appeared to be some kind of automatic weapon but I'm not sure what it could be that you fit under her sleeve? Unless she has some kind of Q Branch built robot arm with inbuilt SMG now?

 

[sojourner]

Why on earth would you need a fully-operational modern automobile factory? At most, you'd need to churn out a few dozen vehicles a year, presuming you didn't just repair or rebuild all the countless ones still available and perfectly functional. Real world Cuba pretty much proved how well that works.

You do realize that the automobile factory was just an example, right?

Not sure where you got the "billions on billions" idea from.

Scavenging won't work for as long as you think though. There was an excellent series of shows on History Channel (or maybe Science channel?) called Life After People that went through just how fast things would deteriorate if everyone on earth just vanished. Things succumb to nature suprisingly fast without us around.

As for the rest, yeah, you're basically agreeing with me considering I said they could maintain a 19th century level of technology.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

As for the rest, yeah, you're basically agreeing with me considering I said they could maintain a 19th century level of technology.

Clearly we have a different idea of what 19th century living was. They're -currently- living 19th century lifestyles. Hilltop is pretty much a town straight out of the Old West. The only thing missing is a train station and horses. Alexandria is well into the 20th century, with indoor plumbing, running water, electricity, automobiles, and advanced firearms.

 

[sojourner]

And Alexandria won't be able to maintain that long term especially if it has a chance to grow in size and support more population. Things break down.

 

[Silvercrest]

Clearly we have a different idea of what 19th century living was. They're -currently- living 19th century lifestyles. Hilltop is pretty much a town straight out of the Old West. The only thing missing is a train station and horses. Alexandria is well into the 20th century, with indoor plumbing, running water, electricity, automobiles, and advanced firearms.

Living the lifestyle and maintaining it are not the same thing at all. Alexandria is living the 20th century with all those things, but they cannot maintain or sustain the 20th century. Parts are going to break or wear out. Look what happened when they needed ONE replacement inverter for their electrical system. What will happen to their running water when a well pump breaks down and they have no way to get another? And the less said about the cars and the magical gasoline, the better. Even magic fuel can't be expected to last forever.

I posted this a few weeks ago.

It would be great if we could see people redeveloping crafts and skills. Hilltop has the right idea. Making new bullets is one thing, but there is no support for all the modern paraphernalia Alexandria uses. And they don't have the resources to develop more. Plastics, microchips, refined petroleum, etc. are out of their reach no matter what. But if they start learning how to forge, smelt, build steam engines, extrude copper wire, isolate chemicals, blow glass for light bulbs and vacuum tubes, etc, then by the time the last solar panel goes down they could comfortably sustain themselves at an early 20th-century level (with the potential to keep advancing).

If they keep operating the way they are, then eventually they'll just run out of tools and find themselves dumped at the beginning of the 18th century. Without the prospect of advancing any time soon.

Would old-style black powder even work in modern firearms?

Oh, and Hilltop isn't at the level of the Old West. They're at the level of Colonial America; i.e. no steam engines, no telegraphs, guns not commonly available, etc. In other words, they are sustaining themselves at the level of ... the 18th century.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

Living the lifestyle and maintaining it are not the same thing at all. Alexandria is living the 20th century with all those things, but they cannot maintain or sustain the 20th century. Parts are going to break or wear out.

Yes, I know. That's how it is right now.

Clearly, however, you missed the brunt of this conversation. It's "what would happen if a cure was found and there was no longer any need to fear zombies, thus allowing humanity to go out and reclaim the world."

The vast, vast, vast majority of the problems with maintaining equipment is the inability to freely go out and acquire whatever items they need, most of which (with the exception of perishable goods) is still readily available. And for the things that aren't, the infrastructure to acquire the raw materials (not that they would need to any time soon since tons and tons of it would be available) and process them are still out there.

I mean, hell, they shouldn't have to be worried about vehicles at all. They could go to any sales lot or, more likely, manufacturing plants and have their pick of pristine vehicles, many of which wouldn't even have gummed up engines because they would never have had oil or gasoline poured into them yet.

Semi-tractor trailers would still work or be repairable. So would aircraft and boats. So would long distance communications, most electronics, and all kinds of other things that would give them a HUGE boost in improving society in no time at all.

They're not actually in the Dark Ages. Or Colonial America. Or the Old West. They're just stuck with those levels of technology at the moment because of circumstances. Unlike the Dark Ages, Colonial America, or the Old West, all that "future tech" still exists and is readily available, as is the knowledge (either directly or indirectly through books and electronic media) to make use of it. They just need to be able to actually do so without a still-occurring apocalypse stopping them.

 

[theenglish]

As to rebuilding the world, it is not as if humans will be starting from scratch. Libraries are still intact and people still have the knowledge we've gained over the past two hundred years. Things don't need to be re-invented or re-discovered for the most part--they just need to be rebuilt. Some high technology devices (anything with a computer chip) would presumably be more difficult because they depend on metals to be mined that aren't readily available, but I'm sure entrepreneurs will be out there reducing existing cell phones and computers to their base materials in order to re-use again.

 

[J.T.B.]

As for this week's episode... Is it bad that I don't actually care if Daryl's dead? I'm sorry but the characters have been acting like such idiots the past few episodes that I'm starting to hope some of them are culled. There are Walkers Wolves and Saviours out there yet they keep blundering out into the world. Carol off on her lonesome was stupid, as was Daryl, then Rosita compounds things by leaving Glenn and Michonne, who at least were tooled up. I mean Rick and Morgan hightail it after Carol, that's Rick armed with a revolver and Morgan with a stick. Rick didn't even bother to grab and AK or something!

Yeah, I'm probably going to bail on the show after this season finale. The Group seems to be smart when the story needs them to be smart and stupid when it needs them to be stupid. How many small parties need to be nearly wiped out, captured or return with casualties before they figure out that every excursion outside the walls needs to be a serious operation, fully armed, multiple vehicles etc.?

Also, why are the zombies still going so strong? Why haven't most of them rotted to bits, or why hasn't their energy run down? Every plague reaches a peak and then declines, I don't get why the zombie threat isn't decreasing with time.

Also why are thy are the zombies still so "juicy," when a functioning live human body dehydrates in a couple of days? Theses things have started to bug me more as the storyline feels like it's going in circles.

And just what did Carol have up her sleeve? I had to rewind and watch it again because I didn't quite believe what I'd seen the first time. It appeared to be some kind of automatic weapon but I'm not sure what it could be that you fit under her sleeve? Unless she has some kind of Q Branch built robot arm with inbuilt SMG now?

And even if a full auto gun fits, how did the ejected casings get clear so the gun didn't jam after a couple of shots?

I'd like to see an episode where they run across a group of people that have started hoarding books for future generations. A well stocked library would be essential to a rapid recovery.

http://www.wnyc.org/story/survivor-library/

Above all rebuilding interests, for long term survival, the farming culture will be the one to last with the least amount of difficulty, for time honored reasons.

Well, really that's the only thing that matters. The story of civilization is the story of agriculture. If you can't stay safely in one place with enough to eat, good luck with everything else.

 

[Morpheus 02]

A question I meant to post some time was this: how hard is it to refine gas? If just one refinery were able to get back up to spped...how much could they do things like fuel cars & generators?

My imagined end for Walking Dead would have the mid-west area stabilized with "good" government that maintains order & gets the "bad guys", and having some routes up and down the middle of the country. There should be enough crude oil to last quite a while. Then, using tankers going up and down, farms could be rebuilt & maintained. And eventually some of the other infrastructure. It might be clusters (i.e. a farm area might have everyone living in the same close area, and spread out to work).

Some of the other things could be rebuilt at that point.

How long do sattelites last? COmmunication might be doable as well.

 

[Silvercrest]

Yes, I know. That's how it is right now.

Clearly, however, you missed the brunt of this conversation. It's "what would happen if a cure was found and there was no longer any need to fear zombies, thus allowing humanity to go out and reclaim the world."

Apparently I did. I've been extremely ill for the last few days and must not have kept up. Shutting up now.

But listen — if I get any sicker and then start making strange noises: you know what to do.

 

[bbjeg]

Yeah, I'm probably going to bail on the show after this season finale. The Group seems to be smart when the story needs them to be smart and stupid when it needs them to be stupid. How many small parties need to be nearly wiped out, captured or return with casualties before they figure out that every excursion outside the walls needs to be a serious operation, fully armed, multiple vehicles etc.?

Also, why are the zombies still going so strong? Why haven't most of them rotted to bits, or why hasn't their energy run down? Every plague reaches a peak and then declines, I don't get why the zombie threat isn't decreasing with time.

Also why are thy are the zombies still so "juicy," when a functioning live human body dehydrates in a couple of days? Theses things have started to bug me more as the storyline feels like it's going in circles...

Don't forget, everyone has the virus so new zombies are created every day probably. As for why bodies brake down slower? TV magic.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Apparently I did. I've been extremely ill for the last few days and must not have kept up. Shutting up now.

But listen — if I get any sicker and then start making strange noises: you know what to do.

Just look at the flowers, SIlvercrest, it'll be OK.

 

[J.T.B.]

Don't forget, everyone has the virus so new zombies are created every day probably.

Sure. But the new zombies would have to come from the population of survivors, which is implied to be pretty small. Like I said, the zombification should have peaked.