The Walking Dead Season 3

[Mojochi]

Milton said he "telecommuted" to work. What kind of SCIENTIST does that? He'd have to go to a lab, if he were a "real" scientist...and maybe have a friend or two there.

Milton is nowhere in the league of the CDC scientist...he may have been a computer technician or something...quest.

I think he's just someone who has the most training to make him the scientist of the group...maybe a step lower than Herschel , the vet (i.e ANIMAL doctor) is now the group's medical doctor (for humans).

Yeah, in the post apocalypse, you take what you can get. In fact from they way he talked about himself, I'd almost think he could have survived by having been a shut in. No family, friends, works from home, but perhaps educated. He's the town nerd

...they were trying to put some strong memories in his head, so that when he turns...they could "prove" that some meories are retained (and stretching that hope in terms of "saving" the dead.

Oh... I realize what he was trying to do. His premise is sound & his method is reasonable. It's his conditions which he has not given any consideration to, perhaps because he doesn't really know walkers well enough to have figured it out yet AND he's more of a science hobbyist than a scientist

I'm not a scientist at all either, & even I know that in order to observe the possible reaction he is looking for, he has to isolate the subject from anything that could contaminate the environment, like a hot meaty lunch waving their arms in front of its face. 1st & foremost, when a person reanimates they are forever in a state of carnal frenzy, so long as there is anything present upon which to feed. Everyone should know that much

& since he learned from Michonne's mules that a neutralized walker becomes more docile. His experimenting should now reflect that understanding. He ought to have been creating a neutral condition in which to study his subject, & he didn't

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, that was quite creepy. The Governor is going to have to die now, but probably not until after the break. I have a feeling the ending to next week's episode will not be fun.

The killing of the Hermit kind of bothered me, but everything happened very fast, so it was understandable. What felt off to me was the beginning, when they brought in Michonne. She showed up at the fence with baby supplies, ready to faint-- why would Rick hurt her and Daryl hold a crossbow on her?

It's good to see the prisoners being integrated into the group, but I have a feeling they are just there to be fodder in the war with Woodbury.

Another thing that interests me is the Red Zone. Presumably, the Red Zone is especially zombie-ridden. And, presumably, that's where our people have been all this time. So, first of all, what makes the Red Zone so appealing to zombies? Second of all, if things aren't that bad outside the Red Zone, why hasn't civilization made more of a comeback?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

As for the experiment he's trying to accomplish...i am sure that is on orders of the Governor. The way he has been able to keep his daughter relatively calm... that shows the theory has SOME merit.

I also took it to mean, regarding the lack of subjects, that there are no zombies that have any relationship with the Woodbury survivors (other than the Governor's daughter.) Witht he subject...they were tyring to put some strong memories in his head, so that when he turns...they could "prove" that some meories are retained (and stretching that hope in terms of "saving" the dead.

This show takes SO much from Romero's Day of the Dead and Survival of the Dead; in Day, there's the experiements to control zombies and seek to reach some of their human memory (giving them flesh rewards), and in Survival, zombies are contained with the theory that they may "return" to normal and/or retain their identity.

Even the term "walkers" was used in one of the Romero films (I think Land of the Dead, although "stenches" was the most used term).

Does Milton know about the Governor's daughter? if so, that would be a motivation to explore that theory as well.

But she has no mind, and as soon as the Governor tore a piece of her scalp off, she immediately returned to "biter" mode.

...and one of the biggest flaes of this series is a lack of revulsion to the smell of a decomposing human. the longer it goes on, the more overpowering/sickening it gets. The governor should not be able to sit that close to his daughter, much like Michonne's two zombies should have turned her stomach.

I've read accounts of former soliders who routinely dealt with the smell of death, and years later, if encountered again, it was still a grueling experience. So, it is not like getting used to bad breath or someone passing gas.

 

[Mojochi]

I think the redzone is a weather forecast at best, & not a very good one either, as it's becoming apparent that Merle has been feeding the Gov some false or at least hyped up info, probably for the purpose of keeping the Gov from becoming too bold to spread out. Merle's probably just trying to keep from being put in harm's way by being sent out too deep

Clearly there is major walker activity all around that prison, & it's likely a pretty steady vein of geek traffic from Atlanta or whatever, but with the right practices in order, it's apparently not only possible for a small group to survive there, but even just a single woman who's damn crafty & skilled with a blade

Probably not a place that any of the sheep in Woodbury want to be wandering through, like Expensive Bow Girl & her shitty aim

 

[Mojochi]

...and one of the biggest flaes of this series is a lack of revulsion to the smell of a decomposing human. the longer it goes on, the more overpowering/sickening it gets. The governor should not be able to sit that close to his daughter, much like Michonne's two zombies should have turned her stomach.

It's hard to call that a flaw. It's zombie fiction. The realism of rotten flesh is just something you have to suspend disbelief on, like Star Trek & transporters

Frankly, Hershel's barn should have smelled like an open mass grave. It would permeate the whole farm. No one could live there with that... in reality. This show is no worse than any other zombie fiction in that respect.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I've been wondering how there are THAT many zombies around in the first place. When humans die in this universe, they're generally either killed outright or straight-up devoured - either way there isn't anything that can reanimate. Likewise, when you die, it can take minutes to many hours to reanimate, during which time your corpse is a ready-made buffet for the walkers. Where are the undead coming from?

I'm guessing that during the initial outbreak there would have been enough people getting bitten and not treated because no one knew how to deal with it. When things got really bad, lots of people would have been bitten, run off, and then died; there wouldn't yet be hordes of the undead wandering around to eat you up.

In the firmly post-apocalypse world, there would be far ewer "new" zombies reanimating after an attack. When a settlement or group is over-run, it's generally because there were far too many walkers to deal with; the victims would thus be brain food.

As for the Red Zone, we know that there are herds of walkers roaming around. Perhaps if they're mostly originating from the cities, I figure that topography would be a factor. Inasmuch as water will flow according to gravity, maybe the walkers' aimless wanderings will force them into valleys or clearings by simple physics of motion and tendancy to move in less obstructed areas, unless stimulated by some external force (food, etc.). Thus, after months of stumbling about, the walkers would generally end up in certain areas more than others. There would certainly be outliers (such as the group Rick and company ran into this week, a mere mile from Woodsbury), but overall there may be more dangerous areas simply because the geography of the area makes walkers stumble into one place more than others.

That, or whoever came up with the Red Zone was spouting pure BS in an attempt to apply some logic to the world and/or make the population of survivors feel better. Certainly not out of line with what we've seen so far.

Mark

 

[throwback]

I believe this about sociopaths and psychopaths. They are like those organisms in the original Star Trek series that feed on love or anger. In their case, they feed on negative energy - anger, fear, desperation, and so on. The Governor thrives on negative energy. When Maggie refused to give him what he wanted, the emotions associated with rape, like a predator who is challenged by prey, he backed down. He then formulated a new strategy that worked for him.

When I hear him talk to Maggie, I can see the deception that he played with the National Guard pilot. I can see why he would want to conquer the prison - it's near a natural water source.

With camps killing each other over resources, there won't be many survivors left in the end. Eventually, someone has to say this crap has to end, and begin the process of consolidating camps.

So, Woodbury has 75 or so survivors, some of them children, and the Governor wants to send in forces to remove people from the prison - a place he considers in his 'backyard'. One can't build a sustainable community with 75 people - one needs more. Now, he is planning a military operation with paramilitary wannabes that could result in further deaths to his community. I am beginning to think this man doesn't care about the long-term sustainability of his community. Like many sociopaths, he sees something he wants, and will do anything to get it, and damn the consequences.

As for Andrea, I think she is a lost soul who is looking for something she didn't have when she was growing up. I watch crime dramas and they describe such people. For instance, the followers of Jim Jones. When Andrea hugged the Governor, I thought of a child hugging a father. Her smile clinched it for me.

It's interesting that Michionne picked up on the fact that the Governor is a Jim Jones-type leader. It's rather scary when I think about. The implications for Woodbury's future are not great. Jim Jones convinced by force of will or force of gun to have his followers kill themselves when their community was facing imminent destruction. Would the Governor in the same situation order the destruction of every man, woman, and child in his community?

There are other parallels between Jim Jones and the Governor. Both acted to kill anyone who left the community. Both acted without thought for the future of the community - Jones had his people kill an official representative of the US government, along with his entourage, and people who chose to leave the community, thus bringing about the ire of the host country, and the Governor is planning an operation that will reduce his manpower, when it has been suggested that individuals from the prison community might be on their way to liberate their people. Unless the people in the prison community act stupidly, they can wait out the recon party until Rick gets back to dispose them of as he will.

I notice this year that the zombies are appearing grayer than normal. I thought I was imagining things, until I read a text note on the aftershow, "The Talking Dead", that the make-up people altered the makeup of the zombies to show that these creatures were further along in their decay.

As for Milton, I don't know what career he had before the zombie apocalypse. I do have the feeling that he was someone who felt comfortable working from home and didn't have friends. I see Milton as prey who sought shelter in the comfort of predators - whatever skills or training he had before, made him valuable to these predators.

 

[AvBaur]

So what do we think about the name Judith? I hope, at the very least they give her "Ass-Kicker" as a middle name. I thought it was a bit odd it was named after Carl's third grade teacher, but I also viewed that as Carl trying to hold onto a little of his old life. On the other hand, I was happy with any name other than "Lori."

Judith O'Dea was the name of the actress who played "Barbra" in the original "Night of the Living Dead". It's probably an hommage to that.

 

[Starbreaker]

It's lifted straight out of the comics.

 

[JD]

I thought this was a pretty good episode. I'm another person rooting for the Governor's death, the dude is seriously sick. I'm very curious to see where they are going with Andrea. After the fight in their Zombie pit, I thought she was starting to see how messed up Woodbury and the Gov. were, but instead she's just started drinking the Kool-Aid even more. I wonder what she'll do if/when she finds out about Glenn and Maggie?

 

[throwback]

That is, if the Governor permits her to learn about Glenn and Maggie. One of the clips from next week shows the Governor is aware of the complications, and is contemplating his next move. As a charismatic leader, the last thing he needs is complications. Andrea is ensnared. I will be surprised if he lets both live.

A minor question, who was the dark haired female that slept in his bed and what happened to her? She appeared once, then disappeared.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

With camps killing each other over resources, there won't be many survivors left in the end. Eventually, someone has to say this crap has to end, and begin the process of consolidating camps.

The Governor--and his lead gaurd do not seem to use logical projections about the probabilty of survivng wars while walkers will simply be attracted to the noise, and move in for the kill.

As for Andrea, I think she is a lost soul who is looking for something she didn't have when she was growing up. I watch crime dramas and they describe such people. For instance, the followers of Jim Jones. When Andrea hugged the Governor, I thought of a child hugging a father. Her smile clinched it for me.

I see her as a chronically horny woman who is also not the most moral person in the world (remember she was once all "Go Shane!") and will side with anyone not "troubled" with the bigger moral questions--like the aforementioned Shane & now the Governor.

It's interesting that Michionne picked up on the fact that the Governor is a Jim Jones-type leader. It's rather scary when I think about. The implications for Woodbury's future are not great. Jim Jones convinced by force of will or force of gun to have his followers kill themselves when their community was facing imminent destruction. Would the Governor in the same situation order the destruction of every man, woman, and child in his community?

There are other parallels between Jim Jones and the Governor. Both acted to kill anyone who left the community. Both acted without thought for the future of the community - Jones had his people kill an official representative of the US government, along with his entourage, and people who chose to leave the community, thus bringing about the ire of the host country, and the Governor is planning an operation that will reduce his manpower, when it has been suggested that individuals from the prison community might be on their way to liberate their people. Unless the people in the prison community act stupidly, they can wait out the recon party until Rick gets back to dispose them of as he will.

I don't think the Governor will go into "White Night" mode (the suicide drills practiced by Peoples Temple/Jonestown), and kill his own people unless the random individual tries to attack him. He's about keeping control over the living, and replacing those who do not get on board--in other words, no doomsday threat/plans used against his own people.

Jones regularly used the idea of "revolutionary suicide" as a means of testing loyalty and the threat of death always bubbling under the surface, while the Governor--surrounded by literal walking death--uses the bait of a restored civilization as his top controlling tool.

 

[Sindatur]

Andrea, The experiment, I don't think should concern her. The Zombie Fight Club, shoulda stayed a red flag for her. She hasn't seen most of the other stuff, we and Michonne know. So, yea, points off for getting herself in deeper with him, after raising her eyebrows over Zombie Fight Club, but, we can't hold most of the rest of The Governor's creepiness against her. Michonne shoulda been more forthcoming with specifics, then we could hold Andrea more accountable for her decisions we can clearly see are poor.

Things are heating up, can't wait for the Confrontation, and yea, I hope Carl takes care of the Entire Raiding party himself, LOL.

The Talking Dead Sneak Peek was very interesting (Spoilered in case anyone is sensitive to extra information not in the actual Walking Dead Episode)

Spoiler: The Talking Dead Sneak Peek

So, is Michonne setting his daughter loose without her veil as a distraction? Put The Governor in an uncomfortable position to explain her or to freeze up when she comes at him? I'm very anxious to see how that plays out

 

[propita]

Merle was aware of the prison and that there were a lot of zombies around it. Even he did not think that only 10 could clean it. That just says how good "our" group is at what they do.

 

[Ryan8bit]

It also had the "do dumb things to serve the plot" syndrome. Running into a cabin to be surrounded by zombies, and setting a zombie to kill your captive, then leaving comes to mind.

Yeah, there was some of that going around. It's hard to imagine that hermit guy could last when there were no zombies let alone now.

I don't think it was to serve the plot really. It wasn't even necessary for the plot. They didn't need to run into a group of walkers in the forest, and they didn't need to run into a cabin. And even if they did all those things, there didn't need to be a guy inside to be the solution out of there.

The purpose of the crazed old man was character development. It showed that Rick is still willing to at least negotiate instead of coming in guns blazing (despite what people said he might do in Glenn's place last week). It also showed that Michonne had no qualms stabbing this dude. It's not just Woodbury people after her that she kills, but anyone who is a threat to her. It shows that she's far more dangerous than we might think, despite what she says about Woodbury.

And this crazy guy being there could have a million explanations. Maybe he had meds that he was on and he only recently ran out. Or maybe his isolation and the zombie apocalypse caused him some serious mental issues that developed into him forgetting all about what happened. It's even possible that he was always a bit crazy, stockpiled lots of food, and lived quietly in his cabin. People can still be functional while at the same time having delusions.

The smell of the cabin could have been more than just a dead dog. It could have been that he never went outside to go to the bathroom.

I've been wondering how there are THAT many zombies around in the first place. When humans die in this universe, they're generally either killed outright or straight-up devoured - either way there isn't anything that can reanimate. Likewise, when you die, it can take minutes to many hours to reanimate, during which time your corpse is a ready-made buffet for the walkers. Where are the undead coming from?

I think that most of the zombies are likely "first generation", meaning that they were part of that initial outbreak. The ones that exist now might be survivors who simply died, especially in small settlements where they might attack the others. Others that may exist might be those who simply escaped a fight, but got scratched or bitten, like Sophia.

As for the quantities of zombies, it's possible that many of them were rounded up looking for the helicopter, and many of them strayed off. That could be part of the reason there is a red zone. And it's not like this is the first time the red zone has been mentioned. Even in the premiere this season, they mention that they have been unable to escape because they are surrounded by hordes. It's likely that if hordes form that there would be pockets that are safer, but it's only a matter of time before those pockets become red themselves. I think that it's likely that after whatever skirmish may happen in Woodbury, that the zombie hordes will end up taking out whatever survivors remain in that town. I wouldn't be surprised if during their attack if some zombies get in the middle.

 

[Mojochi]

I've been wondering how there are THAT many zombies around in the first place. When humans die in this universe, they're generally either killed outright or straight-up devoured - either way there isn't anything that can reanimate. Likewise, when you die, it can take minutes to many hours to reanimate, during which time your corpse is a ready-made buffet for the walkers. Where are the undead coming from?

In a fiction like this, you have to work backwards through it. One has to sort of assume that the initial event was the fever going pandemic as a result of seemingly spontaneous postmortem reanimation. That's the only way to account for whole metropolitan populaces of reanimated dead. The first resurrection(s) were likely an event related to the thing they all carry. Around 150,000 people die of natural causes each day on earth. That could be over a million people worldwide in a week that would reanimate without having been bitten & might not necessarily be in danger of being eaten

Plus, we don't really know the history of the initial event. Was it a situation where people began dying & reanimated? or was it a situation where the dead rose up? or both? Morgues & funeral parlors overflowing with recently dead, plus more dying naturally daily, & the escalation of the dead infecting the living & causing more death

Basically there could have been a mass population of reanimated dead before the feeding frenzy that depleted most of the remaining population really got going. Most times the only people who get consumed are attacked by larger numbers. The early victims wouldn't necessarily be attacked by a pack. They'd have been bitten by a single individual in their locality, gotten the fever, & died. In short order there was many walkers

 

[propita]

Regarding Daryl, I think his statement to Rick in the woods was telling. When Rick thanked him for helping him "work things out," Daryl said "That's what we do." I'm assuming there was more to the sentence, something like "in a family." With all the crap between Daryl and Merle, I think Daryl will choose this family.

Glenn has really showed that he's not who Merle remembers, and Merle remembers a few positive things about him, though still thinks little of him. And if, in Merle's opinion, the "wuss" can become so strong, what might the rest be?

 

[jbny67]

Spoiler: The Talking Dead Sneak Peek

So, is Michonne setting his daughter loose without her veil as a distraction? Put The Governor in an uncomfortable position to explain her or to freeze up when she comes at him? I'm very anxious to see how that plays out

Spoiler: Spoiler

The impression I got from that clip, based on the way she was talking to the girl, was that she didn't know the girl was a walker. She was about to find out though.

 

[Sindatur]

Spoiler: The Talking Dead Sneak Peek

So, is Michonne setting his daughter loose without her veil as a distraction? Put The Governor in an uncomfortable position to explain her or to freeze up when she comes at him? I'm very anxious to see how that plays out

Spoiler: Spoiler

The impression I got from that clip, based on the way she was talking to the girl, was that she didn't know the girl was a walker. She was about to find out though.

Spoiler: Only if you haven't seen Talking Dead

Oh, I thought Michonne witnessed the Father/Daughter time partly when she was in town?

 

[Silvercrest]

So what do we think about the name Judith? I hope, at the very least they give her "Ass-Kicker" as a middle name. I thought it was a bit odd it was named after Carl's third grade teacher, but I also viewed that as Carl trying to hold onto a little of his old life. On the other hand, I was happy with any name other than "Lori."

The teacher was probably one of those who take no crap from the kids.

So, Judith A. K. Grimes?

Perhaps he was half crazed, so he was thinking as though the worlds was sort of operating under normal standards. Why else would he ask for a badge when this self-described policeman is travelling with a pack of very un-cop like individuals?

Meh, in my opinion the scene was added to simply add more gore - by making him walker bait - rather than any thought as to why the man would react that way and why he would be hold up in a barn and seemingly oblivious to the zombie Apocalypse.

My own personal insane theory is as follows - I think the crazy hermit was just fine until that dog died. Then he went bye-bye. His one companion was gone and rotting and then the group found him.

MMilton said he "telecommuted" to work. What kind of SCIENTIST does that? He'd have to go to a lab, if he were a "real" scientist...and maybe have a friend or two there.

Milton is nowhere in the league of the CDC scientist...he may have been a computer technician or something...quest.

It's pretty obvious that Milton and the Hermit used to be roommates.

Silvercrest wrote:
I'm not desperate for a fairytale ending. But having no goal is a problem. If they have no goal, then whatever ending they achieve will only elicit, "meh, so what?"

But they have a goal, it's "Don't get eaten by the dead or murdered by the living", I'm not sure what you're expecting, this is not a quest where some people search for a magic stone, turn every zombie back into a living human and magically restore society to what it was before

Uh, did you read the part where I said I didn't need a fairytale ending?

with a redeemed and living Shane making sweet love to Rick (because Lori was clearly an incarnation of the evil that wanted to kill them all).

Holy ship, Batman!

What kind of shows do you watch because I can't think of many that have a set goal that the characters have to reach, usually the goals are things like get money, find love, have fun or help victim of the week.

You're referring to goals from week to week. I'm referring to a goal for the show as a whole.

But I do see what Silvercrest means. I am quite confident that the writers will give us some kind of dramatic closure, which is always the most important for me. Something that wraps up the themes and provides structure to the character arcs is very common in television series. TNG did this quite well, and Lost (despite its plotholes) did this effectively as well.

In addition to that, I bet that we will get more answers as to how the outbreak happened.

I think what we're asking for is something like, say the group either finds, or is found by, a city where they have essentially rebuilt civilization, however, having the "new normal" of zombies factored into the daily routine. (That city might also be established by the group).

The final season might be the group really trying to find the :secret" of the group, but realize at the end that the safety of this city is real, and not fake like Woodbury.

In the last episode, I might expect Carl or Judith reminicing about the "old days", and we see the new normal as the closing (and maybe someone slicing a zombie head as the last scene).

I can see this. Yes, dramatic closure. Not a cure, not civilization being magically restored, but something to work toward. Even if most of the characters die in the process.

Don't get me wrong, I think the current "survival" attitude is great. But as others have pointed out, if that's all we ever see, it will get old. And yes, most other shows don't wrap everything up in the end. But most other shows aren't this heavily serialized. Generally serial storytelling does lead somewhere. The major exception being, as was also pointed out, soap operas. And comic books.

The only reason I point this out is that showrunners have declared the intention to keep following the comic books in a general way. I haven't read the comics, but I've read up on them to some extent and I don't get the impression that they're leading anywhere. If the show wants to go that route, it will be taking the lazy way out and will be squandering some excellent dramatic opportunities. And might risk turning into a soap opera as well, meaning they've invoked both of the worst kinds of serial storytelling in the same show!

Still, I'm reserving judgement. I like what's going on right now, so I'll have some faith that they know what they're doing.