Spoilers The Vanquishers grade and discussion thread

[The Wormhole]

The only legitimate issues with the story as a whole are the anticlimax of the Doctor not getting her memories back

I'm pretty sure anyone who knows anything about this franchise knew the Doctor wasn't going to get her memories back.

the incongruity of every Dalek being destroyed by the Flux just one episode before a story that features them (and the latter is only an issue because it unnecessarily creates a story hole that now has to be filled).

Meh, the Daleks always survive genocide, and it need not be explained how anymore than the Master always surviving death.

Be in no doubt, the actors did great stuff with what they were given, especially Jodie. But Chibbers can't write. Full stop. It was all exposition and little action. So much exposition! I taught myself scriptwriting, and it was driven home again and again that was story death. Can't write, can't run a show. The writing was on the wall when he worked on Torchwood. He did, after all, write 'Cyberwoman'.

Chibnall was a good writer on Torchwood, particularly in the second season when he focused more on character oriented stories, and Broadchurch was absolutely amazing. For some reason during his term running Doctor Who he's avoided the character stuff he does so well to instead focus on action and grand epic scope stuff he's rather poor at.

 

[Redfern]

Admittedly, I don't have much truly insightful to impart, just a few oddball observations.

1. It used to be the "mystery" about the Doctor was that the companions and other characters asked, summed up as, "Doctor, who are you?" But the "take" with this production era has been inverted, with the Docor asking herself, "Who am I?" Is the notion, divorced of the actual execution, a valid approach? Meh, don't look at me, I'm the kind of "schlubby" fan who will put up with almost any material involving a space/time traveling call station piloted (more or less) by an eccentric brainiac with a British Isles accent.

2. Somebody joked about a Mac Book based computer virus up-thread, but I honestly thought that was probably how the Sontarans got the Lupari. They somehow overrode their ships' systems and "blew" the airlocks en masse to "space" the "space puppers".

3. How much, if really, anything was Chibnall forced to "describe" rather than "show" due to budget cuts and the number of episodes reduced? I mean, did he originally intend to, oh, actually show some of the Lupari getting "spaced", but couldn't due to the previously mentioned reasons? Or did he always intended for it to be merely described by a vindictive Sontaran?

4. The way the Doctor seemed to "connect the dots" and wonder if she and Karvanista were possibly more than just "comrades in arms" during their tenure with Division... Mercy, I wonder when the first "Rule 34" illustrations of Jo Martin Doctor and Karvanista will start appearing on the net?! You know it's gonna' happen!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Admittedly, I don't have much truly insightful to impart, just a few oddball observations.

1. It used to be the "mystery" about the Doctor was that the companions and other characters asked, summed up as, "Doctor, who are you?" But the "take" with this production era has been inverted, with the Docor asking herself, "Who am I?" Is the notion, divorced of the actual execution, a valid approach? Meh, don't look at me, I'm the kind of "schlubby" fan who will put up with almost any material involving a space/time traveling call station piloted (more or less) by an eccentric brainiac with a British Isles accent.

2. Somebody joked about a Mac Book based computer virus up-thread, but I honestly thought that was probably how the Sontarans got the Lupari. They somehow overrode their ships' systems and "blew" the airlocks en masse to "space" the "space puppers".

3. How much, if really, anything was Chibnall forced to "describe" rather than "show" due to budget cuts and the number of episodes reduced? I mean, did he originally intend to, oh, actually show some of the Lupari getting "spaced", but couldn't due to the previously mentioned reasons? Or did he always intended for it to be merely described by a vindictive Sontaran?

4. The way the Doctor seemed to "connect the dots" and wonder if she and Karvanista were possibly more than just "comrades in arms" during their tenure with Division... Mercy, I wonder when the first "Rule 34" illustrations of Jo Martin Doctor and Karvanista will start appearing on the net?! You know it's gonna' happen!

Oh god no........ Why no pics of him and 13? Oh no...... On second thought no..... None of that please but it will happen. There's pics of 13 and Yaz

 

[Redfern]

Oh god no........ Why no pics of him and 13?

Well, as presented in the story, it was when the Doctor had the face of Jo Martin when she served Division alongside Karvanista. Whittaker wouldn't be around for at least 13 regenerations (maybe more). But I'm sure some illustrators will "fudge" and present Whittaker instead.

There's pics of 13 and Yaz

WHERE?! Just kiddin'...or am I?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

WHERE?! Just kiddin'...or am I?

Google Images is your friend for that........ I looked and can't unsee them now. Was looking for pics of 11 and Amy Pond and yeah there are some of him doing Amy

 

[Saul]

Watching this episode is the closest thing to being extremely drunk without actually drinking.

I actually started watching the episode last night but had to stop because it was so jarring. All the jump cuts in the edit, the Doctor splitting herself into 3 and the overly complicated, messy plot were too much. I finished it today. I didn't dislike the episode but it is very unsatisfying and all over the place. It's definitely not a friendly episode for a general audience.

With all that said, I did watch every episode. It's more than I can say of the previous two seasons.

 

[Yminale]

I'm sorry but this entire series was bad. Episode 4 was the only one episode that made sense
1. What was the point of Division outside a big bad for the Doctor to stop
2. Division wants to destroy the universe because the Doctor brings hope WTF??
3. Sontarans in episode 2 are stupid and their plan makes no sense. Oh and black powder can destroy Time traveling warships. (Why do people like this episode)
4. Swarm and Azure are the only thing that make sense except the whole kidnapping Di.
5. Yaz and Dan basically did nothing
6. the <spoiler> basically kill Swarm and Azure even thought they have access to Division and can unleash another Flux.
7. Luparians are bonded to humans, How and Why? Where did they get their anti-Flux shields. How did the Sontarans kill them so quickly. Remember Sontaran have been shown to be both stupid and poor shots.
8. Did I mention the Sontaran plan to stop the Flux made no sense.
9. The Grand Serpent, this monarch from another galaxy, knows how important a primitive planet like Earth is and how important UNIT is.
10. Liverpool Mole man was useless.

This is the worse season of ANY Scifi series. How can you make something like Dr. Who so badly. I'm not sure which is worse this or the last season of Game of Thrones.

 

[DigificWriter]

This is the worse season of ANY Scifi series.

Hyperbole much?

 

[Australis]

Not entirely inaccurate.

Chibnall was a good writer on Torchwood, particularly in the second season when he focused more on character oriented stories, and Broadchurch was absolutely amazing.

Again, 'Cyberwoman'. And, it might just me me, but I found Broadchurch dull, plodding and unpleasant.

I didn't dislike the episode but it is very unsatisfying and all over the place.

This. Very much this.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yeah this one sucked pretty much. What was the device with love hearts and happy sounds?

I only liked Claire and the dog people though there was zero explanation for the Lupari and how they were bonded to humans.

 

[Redfern]

Yeah this one sucked pretty much. What was the device with love hearts and happy sounds?

Bel is pregnant and that device is linked in some fashion with her developing baby, allowing them to somehow communicate in a limited fashion. Some viewers wondered (read: feared) the baby would turn out to be the Doctor.

And, apropos of nothing, Google can certainly be one's dearest friend. Other times, it can make one feel betrayed with the results it offers.

 

[jaime]

Has anyone mentioned how apparently, as of this weekend, the entire universe has been all but destroyed by the flux, which had apparently had too much to eat by the time it got to earth where it was stopped by eating Daleks and cybermen and getting shut into a humanoid shaped Tardis. So… there is nowhere in space and time for the doctor to go post December 5th 2021. Oh. And we’ve been invaded again, but Liverpool is back up and running just fine.(That at least is pretty standard who.)

This was awful. The pre-credits sequence was so choppy it was like watching a ‘previously on’ for an episode we missed, except everyone had missed it, because it was never shown.

 

[Starkers]

don't think Chibnall is a terrible writer. I think he's an average writer who's perfectly capable of crafting an enjoyable episode of Dr Who on occasion but who's clearly struggled to write a significant number of episodes in a short space of time and to come up with a coherent strategy for the show (and I'm still not sure how much the BBC have been pulling the strings.).

I really enjoyed The Power and Three and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship for example, they were throwaway fun. His work on Torchwood was incredibly variable. S1 was truly awful, but he wrote the fun Kiss Kiss Bang Bang in S2, where the show finally jettisoned its unearned pomposity for a bit of levity, and Adrift which I recall being one of my favourite pre Children of Earth episodes. I don't recall anything positive or negative about his Life on Mars episodes. I've never seen Broadchurch so can't really comment on that but it does seem it was a labour of love that he was able to pour a lot of time and effort into.

I can see why the BBC pushed so hard to get him. An experienced writer and producer with hands on experience of Dr Who and Torchwood, he'd produced and showrun not only TW, but Law & Order: UK and Camelot and exec produced the award winning Broadchurch which he'd also written.

On paper he's perfect. In reality he'd never written a remotely classic episode of Who (certainly nothing to compare with RTD or Moffat-- or even the best of people like Whithouse or Mathieson) and he never seems to stick around. He left L&A after the first series, did three seasons of Broadchurch, would have left Camelot even if it had had a second season, and left Torchwood after two seasons. Of course who knows if those were his decisions or the higher ups? Whatever, the notion that he might run Who for the next five or six years seems, in hindsight, a mistake.

He's also given the distinct impression that he might have turned it down. I can't say I blame him, and I wonder if now he wished he had? I also wonder if there was an element of "Well if you won't do it we might have to cancel it."

Anyway TL: DR Chibnall was the wrong choice to take over as showrunner, but he isn't teh worst writer in the world evah! and I don't hate the guy, I just hate some of his choices.

 

[StarMan]

Has anyone mentioned how apparently, as of this weekend, the entire universe has been all but destroyed by the flux, which had apparently had too much to eat by the time it got to earth where it was stopped by eating Daleks and cybermen and getting shut into a humanoid shaped Tardis. So… there is nowhere in space and time for the doctor to go post December 5th 2021. Oh. And we’ve been invaded again, but Liverpool is back up and running just fine.(That at least is pretty standard who.)

This was awful. The pre-credits sequence was so choppy it was like watching a ‘previously on’ for an episode we missed, except everyone had missed it, because it was never shown.

When they showed Dan giving his little museum tour I just assumed everything had been reset and I'd missed a critical piece of rapid-fire, hand-wavy dialogue where they reversed the polarity on Division's flux wave generator, or something.

Come online and find I didn't miss anything. Now I'm no astrophysicist, but I get the sense that annihilating the vast majority of The Universe might have some slight consequences for our day-to-day lives on planet Earth.

The Doc and Yaz seemed in relatively high spirits considering.

 

[Evil Robert]

The Grand Serpent provided them with a 1995 Macbook to upload a virus to the Lupari fleet.

Could've been worse. Could've been Windows 95

 

[Evil Robert]

One positive I took from this series...

Let her have a few years of apprenticeship under RTD or a franchised spinoff, then make Maxine Alderton the showrunner.

 

[jaime]

When they showed Dan giving his little museum tour I just assumed everything had been reset and I'd missed a critical piece of rapid-fire, hand-wavy dialogue where they reversed the polarity on Division's flux wave generator, or something.

Come online and find I didn't miss anything. Now I'm no astrophysicist, but I get the sense that annihilating the vast majority of The Universe might have some slight consequences for our day-to-day lives on planet Earth.

The Doc and Yaz seemed in relatively high spirits considering.

Well of course, got to keep laying the bait for the regular viewers… or something.
I just have this feeling they had a bunch of normal episode ideas, threw them in a blender, and because none of them had an ending, this is what we got.

 

[jaime]

One positive I took from this series...

Let her have a few years of apprenticeship under RTD or a franchised spinoff, then make Maxine Alderton the showrunner.

She has done the only good eps (and they were really good) of the last few years, which were then undercut horribly by what came next or decisions from above. At one point I was fully expecting it to come out that she was Moffat lending a hand on the downlow, that’s how good a handle she has on some of the aspects of modern who.

 

[Starkers]

Maxine Alderton is perhaps the main aspect of Chibnall's era that I really want RTD to retain (tied with Jo Martin who I really want to see again but Alderton might be an easier ask). I've not idea if she's like to be a showrunner some day, some writers are perfectly happy just writing after all, but she's been a shining light these last few years. The Haunting of Villa Diodati is stand out my favourite episode of the Whittaker era, even before we get to Village of the Angels. Even if it's just one episode a year I hope we haven't seen the last of her.

 

[Saul]

This was awful. The pre-credits sequence was so choppy it was like watching a ‘previously on’ for an episode we missed, except everyone had missed it, because it was never shown.

This x 1000