Spoilers The Vanquishers grade and discussion thread

[October Surprise]

Assuming that each spaceship is similar mass to the Enterprise E (for which I happen to have a figure), you would need 1.9 × 10^15 of them to equal the mass of the matter in the earth.

Hope the daleks had a big fleet. Riker-in-the-Picard-finale big

 

[October Surprise]

And operation corner shop?

Ugh I forgot about that. I'm downgrading to 3

 

[jaime]

Assuming that each spaceship is similar mass to the Enterprise E (for which I happen to have a figure), you would need 1.9 × 10^15 of them to equal the mass of the matter in the earth.

Hope the daleks had a big fleet. Riker-in-the-Picard-finale big

It’s why they shoehorned in the business about the subservient Ood the Doctor inherited from not-mum, in the totally not in ‘the void’ not a Tardis, somehow making the flux smaller so it wouldn’t be as dangerous. But… did this happen at launch of flux? Or did it just adjust its size afterwards?
Are they hoping there is enough implied timey-Wimey stuff that all the stuff we saw happen didn’t? Because it sure as heck didn’t look like that as shown on screen (and the story falls down if the doctor stopped it happening before it happened, because then everything else the story — such as it is — depends on also didn’t happen.) so it’s just so much guff.

(And not even original guff, because we are basically riffing on the Three Doctors and Omega, in a story that contains Three Doctors and an Omega rip-off or six, along with the obviously Gallifreyan Bel, Vinder and Serpent, though Chibnall may have changed his mind. The whole thing is like a late nineties, early 2k, fever dream after reading too many novels at once, and binging on Pertwee till your eyes are UNIT badges.)

I never got the love for the Sontarans in the old days, but I feel sorry for any fans they may have, watching this stuff.

 

[October Surprise]

It’s why they shoehorned in the business about the subservient Ood the Doctor inherited from not-mum, in the totally not in ‘the void’ not a Tardis, somehow making the flux smaller so it wouldn’t be as dangerous

Yeah I really didn't follow this episode very well

 

[jaime]

Yeah I really didn't follow this episode very well

I wouldn’t worry, it wasn’t written very well. Just a grab bag from other peoples stuff thrown together to see if it could be passed off as a coherent 6 parter. Chibnall doesn’t write so much as scrapbook and doodle the word ‘kewl’ ‘edgy’ or ‘political!!!’ In the margins using a glittery gel pen.

 

[David cgc]

Except the Sontarans didn't realize the Flux was being weakened from the other side when they developed their plan to plug it up with Daleks and Cybermen (something about this seems oddly familiar...). Similarly, the idea that the Sontarans used hacking or remote control of their ships to get the drop on the Lupari doesn't scan, because that's how Karvanesta is able to evict all the Sontarans from those ships and take remote control of them. You'd think the first thing the Sontarans would do after taking over a fleet by computer is reset all the passwords so no one could do it to them.

 

[JRoss]

Assuming that each spaceship is similar mass to the Enterprise E (for which I happen to have a figure), you would need 1.9 × 10^15 of them to equal the mass of the matter in the earth.

Hope the daleks had a big fleet. Riker-in-the-Picard-finale big

This is totally me pulling something out of my butt, but since they use "Dalekanium" to make their stuff, maybe it is like really, really dense.

 

[matthunter]

Ugh I forgot about that. I'm downgrading to 3

I liked Operation Corner Shop. It had precedent for sugary snacks giving Sontarans a buzz - Strax was being particularly loopy in one of the Smith eps and Vastra asked him "have you been at the sherbet fancies again?"

 

[jaime]

Except the Sontarans didn't realize the Flux was being weakened from the other side when they developed their plan to plug it up with Daleks and Cybermen (something about this seems oddly familiar...). Similarly, the idea that the Sontarans used hacking or remote control of their ships to get the drop on the Lupari doesn't scan, because that's how Karvanesta is able to evict all the Sontarans from those ships and take remote control of them. You'd think the first thing the Sontarans would do after taking over a fleet by computer is reset all the passwords so no one could do it to them.

Oh completely, I’m not saying it worked, just that you could see the frantic scrabbling of a writer trying to get out of a hole. And failing.

 

[Starkers]

All those people complaining about the corner shop stuff I hope you were similarly scathing when Ten went on about little shops in the hospital in Smith & Jones.

 

[jaime]

All those people complaining about the corner shop stuff I hope you were similarly scathing when Ten went on about little shops in the hospital in Smith & Jones.

Nope, because that was a funny bit of dialogue, not five minutes of embarrassing borderline product placement, reducing an alien threat to earth to roughly the same danger as a seven year old or a student who has just smoked himself silly.
See, Strax was funny because he was Strax, and almost certainly fully aware when he was being ridiculous. It was almost self effacing humour when he did things like threaten to invade the moon. This was not that.

To go specifically to your example, whimsical dialogue about wanting a little shop — which indeed most hospitals have — wasn’t then followed with him deciding to actually set up a little shop. It’s that line between whimsy and farce. Even the Slitheen managed to keep fart jokes just the right side of that line. Barely, but they managed it.

This was just a brimful of ash.

 

[The Nightmare Doctor]

To each their own. I also loved Operation Corner Shop.

 

[Starkers]

To each their own. I also loved Operation Corner Shop.

Yup, I have a lot of issues with this episode, the corner shop stuff isn't on that list.

 

[Starkers]

Comment that Lis Sladen laughed at: "Torchwood, made for adults by 12 year olds; SJA, made for 12 year old by adults."

That came courtesy of my friend Gordon (who like Lis is sadly no longer with us) I still remember posting that here years ago and you mentioning it to Lis

 

[jaime]

To each their own. I also loved Operation Corner Shop.

I found the idea of a sontaran having a secret love for chocolate great. As a means of getting one alone to get info/find an in? Great.
As an outright junkie, visibly harming themself, and stupid enough to (a) be bribed with stuff he already has access to and (b) just being stupid to make the story sort of kind of move along (really it’s just to give us the underwhelming death scene and… whatever else happened in that pointless runaround over coordinates that weren’t needed) is something else entirely.

 

[Orac Zen]

Yup, I have a lot of issues with this episode, the corner shop stuff isn't on that list.

Same here. It was perhaps the tiniest bit over the top, but it was nowhere near as absurd as some of the other stuff in the episode.

 

[Mr Awe]

The corner shop stuff was OK by me because it had a very specific end point. It was only to get Claire and Jericho into the Psychic Command. It's not like the Sontaran was turning over secrets or letting saboteurs in. Nah, it just led to Sontarans taking Claire and Jericho using their normal approach. Soooo, not a big deal in my book.

Alternatively, you can imagine that they could've used a different means to get Claire in, but this one was funny. So, I was fine with it.

 

[Blathering Ginger Ghost]

I wouldn’t worry, it wasn’t written very well. Just a grab bag from other peoples stuff thrown together to see if it could be passed off as a coherent 6 parter. Chibnall doesn’t write so much as scrapbook and doodle the word ‘kewl’ ‘edgy’ or ‘political!!!’ In the margins using a glittery gel pen.

He's the Berman of Dr Who.

BTW it would have taken only one or two seconds of dialog but geez no explanation for how that couple's baby can communicate via that device, and that really bugged me through this series, what even is her baby? Is it unborn but very advanced, is their whole race very advanced even unborn? That just irked me.

 

[jaime]

The corner shop stuff was OK by me because it had a very specific end point. It was only to get Claire and Jericho into the Psychic Command. It's not like the Sontaran was turning over secrets or letting saboteurs in. Nah, it just led to Sontarans taking Claire and Jericho using their normal approach. Soooo, not a big deal in my book.

Alternatively, you can imagine that they could've used a different means to get Claire in, but this one was funny. So, I was fine with it.

Why did they need to get Claire and Jericho in? To get co-ordinates that reveal the next place the flux will hit is… the only place left for it to hit? Right in front of them? To kill Jericho off and… whatever happened to Claire.

 

[Anson Mount Seleya]

I liked the corner shop scene, mostly because it settled an argument me and someone else have been having for years about whether or not Sontarans can actually eat food the traditional way or if the probic vent is the only way. Turns out I'm right, they can eat traditionally, the probic vent is presumably just battlefield convenience.