The Undiscovered Country: To clean their chronometers or not

[Timo]

...Especially if the whole war with the Klingons was only made possible by Romulan promises of military alliance in the first place.

For all we know, Operation Retrieve featured Romulan cloaks as a key element!

It seems that the scene as originally scripted had the military contractors as the sole background baddies, and the Romulans were not featured at all. With the introduction of Nanclus, the Federation military-industrial complex becomes sort of redundant. It could even be said that it ruins the three-way symmetry of the conspirators, what with two villains from the Federation side now (the evil Admiral and the chief munitionsmonger). The Romulan connection makes a lot of sense, and the Federation side of the conspiracy is nicely covered by Admiral Cartwright already; we get the sense that the President is surrounded by a lot of yes-men of the war lobby, and that Sarek may be the in a minority there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

the military contractors

Where were these guys? Or, are you saying they were removed entirely?

 

[Timo]

Difficult to tell if they ever had any lines in any of the filmed and later cut bits. Supposedly, one of these guys would have been cast under the "munitions man" title, and might have had a line that was filmed but cut:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/tuchd1050.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/ch13/tuchd2560.jpg

But the President would certainly be entitled to a cabinet of some sort with six civilian-clad humans plus a butler, without any of them actually being military contractors, or bishops, or secret service agents, or whatever.

Are the "cabinet members" possibly among the green-sashed folks at Khitomer? Hard to tell. Certainly they aren't among the blue-sashes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

...And here we have our Munitions Man: the guy sitting in front of the Operation Retrieve flapboard.

http://miamivice.wikia.com/wiki/Carlos_Cestero

Casting a "name" might imply they originally gave him lines, too. But by the above record, Cestero more probably falls in the "no-name" category.

It's also possible that he is one of the green-sashed men rushing to stop our heroes from storming the Khitomer meeting; a guy who looks a bit like that (or then like the butler!) is among the first to grab our heroes.

Also, should we discuss the wider implications of casting a Latino as a Federation villain alongside the Black Admiral, while the only Caucasian villain is given a Chinese name?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Uxi]

I prefer the director's cut but bought the BD set anyway. Not that big of a deal since it's missing too much from the novelization. Particularly the politics angle of the rising tension and other Klingon attacks (including the severe injury to Carol Marcus. Given her real life™ fate, I thought it would have been perfect to have us hear that she was killed off camera in a Klingon attack and that would make Kirk's rage and reactions all the more appropriate especially when added to the long lamented death of his son). Korrd should definitely have been brought back, even if it was just for a line or two to sit at the table. Klaa would have been very appropriate too. At the dinner, and probably as captain of Chang's ship.

 

[Caesar753]

I recently got the theatrical version on Blu-Ray after having only seen the director's cut. I prefer the theatrical version much better. The added scenes were simply unnecessary and are not missed.

 

[David cgc]

I prefer the director's cut but bought the BD set anyway. Not that big of a deal since it's missing too much from the novelization.

That's not quite how it is, since all the stuff you mention here was original to the book, and not part of the script.

...including the severe injury to Carol Marcus. Given her real life™ fate, I thought it would have been perfect to have us hear that she was killed off camera in a Klingon attack...

Bibi Besch didn't pass away until five years after TUC was made, and she was still acting for most of that period.

Klaa would have been very appropriate too. At the dinner, and probably as captain of Chang's ship.

Actually, Klaa was (kind of) in the movie. Listen during the translation gag in the trial scene. You can briefly hear the voice of the klingon interpreter in the gallery in the transition between Chang speaking klingon and the audience hearing him speak english. The interpreter is Klaa, or, at least, is a klingon played by the same actor.

Besides, Klaa was a loose cannon. Terrible choice for a member of a conspiracy. Never mind that TFF nearly destroyed the classic series, and it was a minor miracle that a proper sendoff was greenlit after it. I doubt anyone would be pushing for any of it to be acknowledge.

 

[Uxi]

I prefer the director's cut but bought the BD set anyway. Not that big of a deal since it's missing too much from the novelization.

That's not quite how it is, since all the stuff you mention here was original to the book, and not part of the script.

Sure, either way, extended cut just isn't different enough to matter. If they had gone ahead with Operation:Retrieve it could have been relevant. As it is, it's the same result. Lots of expanded material in there. The whole worker caste thing in the novelization was interesting but probably too long winded for a movie.

...including the severe injury to Carol Marcus. Given her real life™ fate, I thought it would have been perfect to have us hear that she was killed off camera in a Klingon attack...

Bibi Besch didn't pass away until five years after TUC was made, and she was still acting for most of that period.

Ah didn't check that and might have been thinking Generations (instead of "Antonia"). On screen resolution for that relationship would have been great to give Kirk some more depth. Don't you think her injury in book makes Kirk's reactions better?

Forgot that the dinner with the Klingons really need to be extended, as well.

Klaa would have been very appropriate too. At the dinner, and probably as captain of Chang's ship.

Actually, Klaa was (kind of) in the movie. Listen during the translation gag in the trial scene. You can briefly hear the voice of the klingon interpreter in the gallery in the transition between Chang speaking klingon and the audience hearing him speak english. The interpreter is Klaa, or, at least, is a klingon played by the same actor.

Besides, Klaa was a loose cannon. Terrible choice for a member of a conspiracy. Never mind that TFF nearly destroyed the classic series, and it was a minor miracle that a proper sendoff was greenlit after it. I doubt anyone would be pushing for any of it to be acknowledge.

Well he would have never left the ship anyway, so not a big OPSEC deal. Even Klingons have to mature eventually (as he seemed to be on the road to by the end of TFF, anyway), but even if not, I think he was one of the few bright spots in TFF and COULD have had provided a tiny bit of continuity as well as showed more variation amongst the Klingons in TUC.

Undoubtedly the attitude of pretending it never happened was most prevalent, but there were a couple good elements that would have been VERY relevant. Korrd would have been invaluable for that as one of Gorkon's advisors as well as brought another tiny bit of retroactive merit to TFF.

 

[Timo]

Don't you think her injury in book makes Kirk's reactions better?

Not really. Kirk just didn't seem to care for her all that much: he simply wasn't the womanizing type. By ST3, he had already lost all contact with Marcus; by ST4, it appeared he didn't particularly care. And she didn't, either - she didn't turn up at his big trial!

If Kirk grew bitter about the Klingons, it wouldn't have been over a woman. Losing a son was plenty enough of exposition for the fact that Kirk's acts could be construed as being vengeful. Yet in the end, they weren't - Kirk's bitterness over losing David did not really motivate him, and he didn't act out of bloodlust even when dealing with the hated (generally, and for rather objective reasons) Klingons.

Trying to give Kirk a further motivation for hating the Klingons would not only have been unnecessary, it would have detracted from the actual set of character motivations.

Timo Saloniemi