The Undiscovered Country: To clean their chronometers or not

[Kegg]

In plot terms all that matters is that Valeris is a conspirator and that there is a conspiracy that crosses Starfleet-Klingon boundaries; and this is obvious no matter what cut you watch, even if only once. The other conspirators are very minor characters, and the only one even resembling having any importance (Cartwright) does get a scene where he's arrested.

Hell, when it comes down to it Ambassador Nanclus' role in the film amounts to basically nothing beyond a tacit acknowledgement that there's a third interstellar power out there which might have a vested interest in the Federation-Klingon conflict. He might as well not be in the movie.

 

[USS KG5]

It makes perfect sense - you just have to assume

Bingo. We have to sit around guesstimating the reason but there's none given in the movie.

They also don't explain how they end up in SPACESHIPS in the FUTURE in the movie, they are however in spaceships in the future.

There is no need to pander to the fans by explaining every little thing, it is not relevant to the story's internal logic, just to the super fans who think "but the Romulans are bastards".

They are explaining their rather daft plan in front of a Romulan, ergo they trust him, more fool them.

 

[Kegg]

They also don't explain how they end up in SPACESHIPS in the FUTURE in the movie, they are however in spaceships in the future.

Not something that needs to be explained. The movie is set in a fictional future, and in this future people fly around in spaceships, a handy-dany way to get from Earth to Khitomer and back again. It's actually fairly self-explanatory.

Why the Romulan was sitting in on a Starfleet briefing is something we, as good Trekkies, have to sit around concocting elaborate excuses for. We can get them to work, but that doesn't mean this scene didn't have a problem.

 

[USS KG5]

They also don't explain how they end up in SPACESHIPS in the FUTURE in the movie, they are however in spaceships in the future.

Not something that needs to be explained. The movie is set in a fictional future, and in this future people fly around in spaceships, a handy-dany way to get from Earth to Khitomer and back again. It's actually fairly self-explanatory.

Why the Romulan was sitting in on a Starfleet briefing is something we, as good Trekkies, have to sit around concocting elaborate excuses for. We can get them to work, but that doesn't mean this scene didn't have a problem.

I'm perfectly willing to accept you have a problem with it, as a hardcore trekkie, can't say I disagree with your reasoning as someone reasonably hardcore myself.

But can you have a problem with it as a film because of this?

 

[Kegg]

I'm perfectly willing to accept you have a problem with it, as a hardcore trekkie, can't say I disagree with your reasoning as someone reasonably hardcore myself.

But can you have a problem with it as a film because of this?

In my original post on the matter, I was agreeing to a criticism someone else had made about the scene but was defending the scene regardless. It's not a big deal, but it is a logical flaw.

You know, like the notorious clock on the viewscreen which very obviously jumps around its numbers.

 

[Chrisisall]

I'm perfectly willing to accept you have a problem with it, as a hardcore trekkie, can't say I disagree with your reasoning as someone reasonably hardcore myself.

But can you have a problem with it as a film because of this?

For myself, not at all. I just watch the recently released theatrical version.

 

[Anticitizen]

I loathe the flashes with the firey passion of a thousand suns, but I'll still admit that there's something wrong if you need to see a movie like this more than once to follow the plot.

There had to be some way of doing it more artfully. Maybe a almost-complete cross-fade in and out of the clips of each character as he was named, without the bell, to preserve the motion of the scene.

I feel the same way... it's the BSHOOOOSHONG sound effect that accompanies the shots of the characters that is jarring, not the video clips themselves.

I guess it's better than the most recent mind-meld we saw, which was framed entirely in flashback-view-mode!

 

[USS KG5]

You know, like the notorious clock on the viewscreen which very obviously jumps around its numbers.

Which of course rather defies the point of it being there - presumably to show that the events flow in a very short space of time.

 

[Tomalak]

I thought that the "Klingon" shooter (Colonel West) was placed their by the Starfleet conspirators in order to kill the pro-peace figures (Azetebur and the Federation President) and make sure the Klingons took the blame for the murders.

Yeah, exactly, it's conspiracy within conspiracy. The Starfleet hardliners want people to see a Klingon killing their President (I bet Chang was supposed to be on hand to get Colonel West out of the way) as a pretext for war which the Klingon nutters want too. And then they are going to "clean their chronometers".

I've usually seen the extended video cut - I think I only saw the theatrical once when it was shown on BBC1 - and it would feel wrong without the added bits. That said, the last DVD didn't need to add the black and white shots. That was just a bit crummy.

 

[Elder Knight]

Oh, I've gotta have the chronometers. And Colonel West is the sort of blatantly out of place reference I appreciate (are there Colonels in Starfleet? No, but for the sake of this story, yes).

West was the Starfleet Admiral in charge of Food Services. He's a Kentucky Colonel, good with Secret Recipes and Secret Missions.

 

[Neumann]

Where else has this Chronometer reference EVER appeared?

 

[Kirks_Flying_Wig]

I hate the "the audience is too thick to remember who General BONNNG Chang is" scene in the DE. The scene as presented in the TE was excellent--the long, uninterrupted move of the camera around the actors and Valeris' changing expression as Spock probes deeper into her mind.

The torpedo room scene annoys me because of, as people have already said, Scotty's uncharacteristic "Klingon bitch" line, and Valeris' forced "it was on the news" line, which just acts as a neon arrow with "It was her!" written on it.

 

[lstyer]

I hadn't seen the theatrical cut probably since seeing the film in its original theatrical run, and since this is my favorite Trek movie, I've seen the home video extended cut a number of times. So while I am, intellectually, aware that there are changes, they have really never felt like changes to me.

That said, a couple hours ago I finished watching the theatrical cut on Blu-Ray, and I have to say it certainly moves at a faster pace than the video cut, and I didn't really fell like the film lost any oomph with the removal (non-addal?) of the additional scenes, so I guess I'm coming down on the side of the theatrical cut.

 

[Data Holmes]

I would love to see them restore the longer cuts of the presidents briefing with the military contractors, the dinner sequence, and the (may not have been filmed) tour of the enterprise with the klingons where they were in the science lab talking about the fleet wide mission to study of "gaseous anomalies".

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Question: Was the Federation president human? If not, what exactly was he? And was he the same fellow on the Saratoga when the lights went out?

Same race (Efrosian, named after Mel Efros), different character.

I would love to see them restore the longer cuts of the presidents briefing with the military contractors, the dinner sequence, and the (may not have been filmed) tour of the enterprise with the Klingons where they were in the science lab talking about the fleet wide mission to study of "gaseous anomalies".

All of those were never filmed, IIRC.

 

[Data Holmes]

I would love to see them restore the longer cuts of the presidents briefing with the military contractors, the dinner sequence, and the (may not have been filmed) tour of the enterprise with the Klingons where they were in the science lab talking about the fleet wide mission to study of "gaseous anomalies".

All of those were never filmed, IIRC.

Both the expanded Presidential briefing with the "civilian military contractors" (the contractors are credited in the credits) and the expanded dinner sequence were definitely filmed, The klingon tour and comment about starfleet's mapping mission was at least scripted as it appeared in the film's Comic tie in...

 

[cwl]

let us discuss this secret plan to invade Klingon space....right in front of the Romulan ambassador.

 

[Tomalak]

Epic bump.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Oh, I've gotta have the chronometers. And Colonel West is the sort of blatantly out of place reference I appreciate (are there Colonels in Starfleet? No, but for the sake of this story, yes).

Maybe he was a MACO. Unlikely the MACOs are still around but possible.

 

[T'Girl]

let us discuss this secret plan to invade Klingon space....right in front of the Romulan ambassador.

Shifting political alliances my friend, would it be so hard to imagine President Obama discussing the (then) upcoming attack on Libya with his military advisers, while the British and French ambassadors were present in the room?