The Typhon Pact
- Thread starter Elemental
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So, just to sum up, ProtoAvatar thinks I'm trying to excuse Hitler and the other Axis governments, and Kestrel thinks I stereotype and don't show sufficient awareness of other horrific human rights abusers.
So, in other words, ProtoAvatar thinks I'm too much of a cultural relativist, Kestrel seems to be arguing that I'm ethnocentric.
You just can't win around here.
Nah, I just think you're exaggerating for effect mostly, using a lot of bluster to prove your point.
Of course, we do have a solid half-century-plus in this country of painting the Axis as the Antichrist(s) to the exclusion of all others ever, so it's a common enough blinder... but that's for another thread.
Write what you think, not what you think others want to hear.
Ach. That certainly ain't his problem...eh, Sci?
Nah, I just think you're exaggerating for effect mostly, using a lot of bluster to prove your point.
Which is why I often get the feeling...that Sci's my evil twin...or I'm his....
Hey. Wierder things have turned up.
The Typhon Pact seems to be comprised of races that have been hostile towards the Federation, though the Gorn seem to be the anomaly of the group as they're not as hostile as the other races have been. It would seem that the Federation is taking the formation of the Pact as a threat, most likely thanks to the Tholian Ambassador, as they're going to attempt to expand the Khitomer Accords. A cold war is the most likely event that will come out of this, not full scale war. The Federation hasn't had a pretty image of late so they can capitalize on any ill feelings any race might have about joining the Federation. The Tholians being a part of this is very strange but it seems to be motivated more along the lines of 'payback' than anything else. If the IRS, Cardassians, Talarians, and Ferengi were not invited to be in the Pact and were as clueless as the Federation, I can see them siding with the Federation and Klingons in response. My guess would be that two of them will for sure, the others will attempt to maintain neutrality.
About the Gorn...
Again, Bacco became famous for her successful negotiations with the Gorn and the Metrons. They respect her.
So...why would they join with other races against Bacco...?
Again, Bacco became famous for her successful negotiations with the Gorn and the Metrons. They respect her.
So...why would they join with other races against Bacco...?
Because the Typhon Pact isn't necessarily against Bacco, even if the Tholians are going to try to move it that way.
^
The Tholians and the RSE. There's no love lost between RSE and Federation esp. in light of the cozying up to the IRS. Oh, and the Tzenkethi are furious over the death of one of their citizens, a child "at the hands" of the Federation (regardless of how events actually played out). The Kinshaya are at war with the Klingons, and the Federation wouldn't want the Khitomer Accords to fall through again. Apart from the Gorn, it looks like a pretty hostile Pact to me. Maybe not hostile enough to declare open war, but enough to be on a Cold War footing.
The Tholians and the RSE. There's no love lost between RSE and Federation esp. in light of the cozying up to the IRS. Oh, and the Tzenkethi are furious over the death of one of their citizens, a child "at the hands" of the Federation (regardless of how events actually played out). The Kinshaya are at war with the Klingons, and the Federation wouldn't want the Khitomer Accords to fall through again. Apart from the Gorn, it looks like a pretty hostile Pact to me. Maybe not hostile enough to declare open war, but enough to be on a Cold War footing.
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I agree.
I mean it's all very well postulating that the Typhon Pact isnt going to be an enemy, just another political player etc.. however that seems to be nothing more than conjecture, as everything actually seen in any books paints them as hostile.
As soon as they thought they had the backing of the pact, the Kinshaya attacked two Klingon worlds. Through proxy agents, memebers of the pact tried to destabilise the Federation by sabotaging mining efforts and antagonising one of the planets (I forget it's name, begins with "Z" I think...) to temporary stop taking refugees and threaten withdrawl from the Federation itself, the Tholian ambassador out and out said that they were only joining to spite the Federation and how the Federation and Klingons are now "surrounded by a heavily armed power".
Even the blurbs for the upcoming books paint them in a hostile manner. "2010: the Typhon Pact awakes", Titan is going up against the Gorn as they attempt to solidy there place in the Pact, the Aventine has to place Federation agents "behind Breen lines", DS9 has to deal with the RSE (Those well know, peace loving friends of the Federation) trying to "establish themselves as the rightful leaders of the Pact", by "any means necessary", and the TNG book mentions how "The Typhon Pact will show their strength by daring to reach into the heart of the Federation to raise their standard as the pre-eminent power", etc..
There might not be out and out war, but the intentions of the Pact seem quite clear at the moment. And those intentions do not point towards peaceful co-existence.
"A single death is a tragedy", as the tyrant said...but I'd hardly call that an excuse to go to war...unless you're just trigger-happy--or at least insanely sentimental.
depends who the person is.
The Tzenkethi weren't looking for an excuse to go to war, the Tzelnira and Autarch were using the Zormonk incident as fuel for their "It's all and always the Federation's fault" agenda. The Federation is apparently their scapegoat for everything. This was a good opportunity to cement the Federation as "evil" in the eyes of the Tzenkethi people, it wasn't warmongering.
^That...just makes it worse....
It may be more immoral, but it is also significantly more peaceful. "Let's use this as an excuse to scapegoat the Federation again" is significantly less threatening than, "You killed one of our people! DIE!"
I find it interesting that despite the Federations' oft-expressed desire for inter-galactic peace and cooperation,almost everyone is wondering just when this new political alliance(the Typhon pact) will open hostilities.
Perhaps the almost constant state of siege/war that has prevailed in Trek,both onscreen and in Treklit,has led to a certain mindset.
Those of a more psycho-sociological mind might say that this is reflective of our present day reality.
Perhaps the almost constant state of siege/war that has prevailed in Trek,both onscreen and in Treklit,has led to a certain mindset.
Those of a more psycho-sociological mind might say that this is reflective of our present day reality.
Indeed. I'm half-wondering if the Federation, acting out of fear and xenophobia, might not itself provoke the very conflict it so fears.
I must say, I personally don't see how our present reality is more violent or features more combat/destruction than earlier times.
Anyway, I'm certainly not expecting an armed conflict. Both the UFP and the Typhon Pact are about peaceful co-operation. Their rivalry may become intense, but it won't be another war story- the authors have as a good as promised us that.
^
Agreed on both counts.
I see our present day reality as being more peaceful for most people compared to any other time pre-20th century. Our media and news reporting has gotten so good that even the smallest atrocity gets a lot of attention.
As for the Pact and UFP, I'd like to see "battles" on economic and political fronts (not armed conflict). There was never an equal to the UFP on these fronts until now.
Agreed on both counts.
I see our present day reality as being more peaceful for most people compared to any other time pre-20th century. Our media and news reporting has gotten so good that even the smallest atrocity gets a lot of attention.
As for the Pact and UFP, I'd like to see "battles" on economic and political fronts (not armed conflict). There was never an equal to the UFP on these fronts until now.
/\Guys,without starting a whole other discussion and all the grief that goes with it..
Huge chunks of the world we live in are not at peace and people wearing very recognisable uniforms are in the thick of it.Please let it rest at that.
My observation was simply that Trek has the ability to capture the zeitgeist of it's time.
As mentioned above,perhaps it's the Federations own paranoia that will precipitate a further disaster.
Huge chunks of the world we live in are not at peace and people wearing very recognisable uniforms are in the thick of it.Please let it rest at that.
My observation was simply that Trek has the ability to capture the zeitgeist of it's time.
As mentioned above,perhaps it's the Federations own paranoia that will precipitate a further disaster.
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