The extra layer of Spock creating the KM test would have paid off sweetly in your scenario. Well done.
The Tragedy of Spock Prime
- Thread starter Believer Bob
- Start date
Thanks!
Old Spock has a Metal Gear Trek 4: Guns of the Romulans vibe to it.
I like it.
Perhaps they can have Konami do the game of the movie.
I don't have any real interest in "Countdown" so most of this is lost on me. I do think that given the brief time that this story could give the Spock character to explain what happened, introducing any really tragic elements into his backstory would have been confusing and disappointing - disappointing because this movie wasn't his story, and the treatment of such elements would have been desultory and seemed like cheating him.
Really?? I thought it was disappointing that without these elements the plot really didn't make any sense...
Really, you should, though. If you're a Trek fan, it's great stuff...
While it's true that nuanced villains have never been Star Trek's strong suit, most of the movies have compensated by casting strong character actors that are a joy to watch even when they don't necessarily make sense. Unfortunately, I don't think Eric Bana is in anywhere near the same category as Ricardo Montalban, Christopher Plummer, Malcolm McDowell, or F. Murray Abraham. Heck, based on this performance, I rank Bana somewhere below Tom Hardy and only slightly above the guy who played Captain Klaa in Star Trek V.
And I find it difficult to believe that not only Nero but also all of his crew would just sit on their hands for 25 years waiting for Spock to arrive.
Not to mention the timetravel feels very arbitrary. It seemed like a total accident that Nero or Spock ever ended up in the past in the first place.
And as to what to call the older version of Spock, if we don't like "Old Spock," what about "Future Spock"?
How's about "Real Spock"?
Nimoy Spock.
T'Bonz...! Did'ja get my email??
Nero won it in a bet from Lando Calrissian.
I just went and had a look. I was out doing an early Mother's Day bit today and then getting immersed in the fangirl bit of enthusing over and nitpicking the $*#@ out of the movie, and so I hadn't looked at my emails.
I'll answer it tomorrow. I'm a bit brain-dead a.t.m.
i wonder how much of the countdown backstory actually got filmed or did they just plan all along to use the comic.
any hoo..
links to memory alpha enteries on the countdown comic
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Countdown,_Number_Three deals with the conversion of the narada
Elsewhere, the Narada crew discovers the existence of a cloaked military facility known as The Vault, using an encrypted code acquired from the murdered Senate. The Vault's existence was known only to the Romulan High Command; its purpose is to provide a safe haven for the ruling council in the event of a threat to the homeworld. Nero gains entrance to The Vault, stating that the Praetor gave Nero his Senate codes and the location of the facility before dying of injuries sustained in the destruction of Romulus. Aboard the facility, Nero meets Commander D'Spal, who explains that The Vault is the rendezvous point for what remains of the Romulan fleet.
Nero asks D'Spal for weapons to help the Narada survive the current crisis. She introduces him to an advanced weapons system of Romulan design which utilizes retrofitted Borg technology. In addition to giving their ships warp, cloaking, and sensor capabilities superior to those of Federation vessels, it also uses self-repairing nanotechnology which can fix any damage and allows it to anticipate potential threats and modify its systems accordingly. As Nero looks on in awe, D'Sal states that the Narada would make a fine prototype for this weapons system.
Nero asks D'Spal for weapons to help the Narada survive the current crisis. She introduces him to an advanced weapons system of Romulan design which utilizes retrofitted Borg technology. In addition to giving their ships warp, cloaking, and sensor capabilities superior to those of Federation vessels, it also uses self-repairing nanotechnology which can fix any damage and allows it to anticipate potential threats and modify its systems accordingly. As Nero looks on in awe, D'Sal states that the Narada would make a fine prototype for this weapons system.
^Which seems weird because the movie seems to imply that the black hole sucked Nero & Spock back into the past immediately after the destruction of Romulus.
I totally disagree. From Kahn to Gul Dukat, Moriority, Lor, Q, even Shinzon and Soran... Trek has boasted some of the richest and most complex villains in film!
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^True enough. I don't think Nero would even be capable of something as eloquent as Dr. Soran's speeches about time.
The Tragedy of Spock Prime
Trek rebooted, re-imagined, and re-invigorated! Phenomenal cast, awesome effects, and most importantly it felt like Star Trek---and looked like the Star Trek we've always imagined, dreamed of, and hoped for. So in a nearly (against all odds) perfect film... What went wrong?
Short answer: The villain.
Long answer: The Plot. A thin plot which robbed a seemingly wonderful villain of potential and motivation.
Even longer answer: Spock Prime. A strange reluctance on the part of writers Kurtzman and Orci to make the necessary choices with the character of Nimoy-portrayed Spock, to allow for a rich and meaningful plot, which in turn would provide depth and motivation to their villain, Nero.
Let’s take a closer look.
In both the Countdown prequel comic book mini-series and the film, the movie’s villain Nero is portrayed as hellbent on avenging the destruction of his planet Romulus, the loss of his culture, and the deaths of his wife and his unborn child upon Spock... a man who did everything humanly/Vulcanly possible to prevent that destruction. Strange.
The dilemma here lies primarily with Nero's motivation, or lack thereof. Simply put: the plot necessitated that Nero be obsessed with revenging himself upon Spock... and yet Spock did nothing whatsoever to instigate that obsession.
The mechanics of this problem (let’s think behind-the-scenes for a moment, shall we?) seem to be that, for whatever reason, the writers were simply unwilling (or unable?) to actually allow Spock Prime to do anything wrong. To make a single mistake. In other words to be human (as opposed to acting human, which he did wonderfully). Unwilling to allow him a tragic flaw, writers Kurtzman and Orci painted themselves into a plotting corner and created for themselves a writers' paradox: In keeping Spock Prime flawless and sacred, they still needed something absolutely dire for which to blame him.
For whatever reason (and I'd be very interested in knowing how this was bantered about the writing table...), they simply refused to allow Spock Prime to make a single bad choice, error in judgment, or even to make a hard (but right) judgment call (for example, placing Spock in the "no win" situation of having to choose between saving Romulus or the Federation, or even saving Romulus or the rest of the galaxy... Giving Spock a taste of his own Kobyashi Maru as he’s forced to allow Romulus to die for the greater good... (i.e., needs of the many...) would surely have played well against the Kobyashi Maru themes of young Kirk/Spock elsewhere in the film.
In not allowing there to be any shadow of doubt cast upon Spock Prime's role in the unfolding events that led up to the movie, we were robbed of an interesting and believable "villain." And also of a provoking story.
While I think the film was absolutely phenomenal in almost every respect (I can’t say enough good stuff about it!) the one area it was surely lacking was in the plot---and the reasons are purely due to the restrictions that were placed upon (or that the writers placed upon themselves) the treatment of Spock Prime. Their unwillingness to treat him with depth, as a multifaceted character.
How much more intriguing, tragic, and provoking would the story have been had they allowed Spock to make a mistake (or the tough judgment call) that resulted in the destruction of Romulus? This would have justified Nero's motivations to be sure... and it would certainly have made Spock Prime's situation far more heart-wrenching and tragic, as we discover him in isolation on the frozen planet, living with the guilt and ramifications of his actions---having sacrificed the very planet that he struggled to Unify with Vulcan and the Federation---especially, when (as the course of the film plays out and the galaxy has been saved) Spock's future mistakes are now justified, but at an awesome price: the destruction of Vulcan. Now, the new chapter of Spock's life, helping to rebuild the Vulcan society, would have an even deeper, even more personal and tragic poignancy...
How much more intriguing would it have been, if Captain Pike, young Kirk and Spock, et al, had not only reason to question Nero’s motives, but old Spock’s motives as well? This old Vulcan from the future, appearing out of nowhere in the midst of Apocalypse---who could trust him? What mystery and ethical intrigue might have been added to the story with the inclusion of having our heroes not sure of they should align themselves with Spock Prime or try him for crimes against humanity? Wondering if indeed Nero had a legitimate case against the aging Vulcan? If we, the audience, were forced to second-guess and wonder at Spock’s true motivations? I’ll go out on a limb: Since the writers decided to barely include a bare-bones backstory as to how and why Nero and Spock ended up in the past, how would the movie have felt if, in the end, we were never entirely sure who was right and who was wrong? Spock or Nero? Both or neither? Shades of gray…
Spock is not a superhero. He is not (or should not be) flawless. As an aging Jim Kirk will one day lament, "Of all the souls I've encountered in my travels, his was the most... human."
If only the writers had paid as much loving attention, care and willingness to allow imperfection (after all, it's our flaws, our mistakes, our tragedies which make us interesting) to Spock Prime as they did to young Spock, and every other aspect of the film... we would've had a story that was truly... fascinating.
Just my two cents...,
Brilliant analysis. You really boil down the film and explain why it sucks so much.
Thanks! (Though I actually thought the movie was brilliant---short of the failed Nemo/Spock plotline...)
Oh dear. McDowell was much weaker IMO, as was Abrahams. Bana's problem was taht he didn't have much to do or many scenes.
And why the Todd Bryant hate? I thought he was a fine actor!
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