The Tragedy of Spock Prime
- Thread starter Believer Bob
- Start date
I'm not. I'm "trying to apply logic and rational thinking" to the writers of the film.
And again I ask the question 'why?'. Nero was deliberately given irrational motivations for his actions, and he's not the first villain in literary history to behave in such a manner, nor is he even the first Star Trek villain to behave in such a manner.
Gawd I hate referring to Nimoy as Spock Prime...he's not a goddamned transformer!
Carry on...
Well he did voice one in 1986
Galvatron Spock
I think some are tired of that type of villain. Real people don't exist in such a way that they behave like Shinzon or Nero. Most people would still have a conscience or feelings. It's one thing to be somewhat irrational at times, but it's another to be completely irrational and entirely devoid of common sense. Nero is totally one-dimensional, and I'm tired of that kind of villain.
The film was absolutely phenomenal, but there's not enough good stuff to say about it? I'm confused. Did you enjoy the movie? Or, did the plot ruin it for you?
Myself, I thought it was a very good film that should appeal to a larger audience and hopefully reinvigorate the franchise. I am personally having more issue with mentally setting aside years of Star Trek lore and begin following this new alternate reality and the possibility of reintroducing William Shatner as JTK.
Some reviewer posted on RT who panned the movie said pretty much the same thing: Spock Prime need some ambiguity surrounding him. The others (particularly Kirk and even Spock) needed to wonder if Nero truly had a case against Spock Prime. Did Spock Prime do something wrong? Even unintentionally? Should we trust Spock Prime's motives? After all, do we (those in the new timeline) really know this guy?
Doesn't he have a crew that can aid him in making rational decisions?
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I think you're missing my point. I never said that Nero's actions weren't irrational. But they were unfounded in terms of plot and story. Even irrationality needs a platform.
You're entirely correct: Ahab's pursuit of the whale was irrational. Kahn's pursuit of Kirk was equally so. Yet both were deeply rooted in a well-developed plot and character and writing.
My (only) contention with the film---and the thrust of my essay---is that the very irrationality which drives Nero has no foundation, primarily due to the lazy writing and plot/character development (of Spock Prime & Nero, the others were handled brilliantly)...
Gawd I hate referring to Nimoy as Spock Prime...he's not a goddamned transformer!
Carry on...
And I was thinking Spock from Earth-1, as opposed to Earth-2, etc.
Actually, there ARE people in real life who behave totally irrationally and without exercising any common sense. A good example comes from a few days ago when a man in my home state (Utah) deliberately and unremorsefully ran down a bunch of junior high kids who were using the SIDEWALK to walk home from school.
LOL! Apologies trek punk, poor wording on my part
What I meant was, "I can't say enough good stuff about it!" (I fixed this in my initial post).
Actually, I agree with all of those points! However, that said, I'm not panning the film---I LOVED it!!
Franklin, would you have a link to that review? I'd love to read it...
Yes, surely people do irrational things, but like I said, not completely irrational and devoid of any common sense. Did that guy destroy a planet? Did he intend to destroy hundreds of planets? Did he wait around 25 years just so he could get revenge on somebody? What motivates him to do this? There has to be more rationale than what we were given. Sometimes people are just crazy, but that does not make for an interesting villain.
RyanBit8, did you even read what I wrote? The guy that I mentioned deliberately drove his car up on to the sidewalk to go after the kids he hit, and he did it MULTIPLE times. How is that not irrational and devoid of common sense?
Why'd he do it? What was his brand of insanity? What was his backstory? Why was he allowed to drive? Where did he get the car? Was he married? Did he have a family? What was his childhood like? What was his life like? What led him up to this tragic irrational behavior? Where did he live? Who did he blame? What did he believe? What made him what he was? How did he feel after he ran over the kids? What did he tell the police? Did he go to prison or an asylum? What was his story?
That's the difference between a well-written, plot and character driven cinematic film...
...and a newspaper article.
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According to the Countdown comics, Nero put his trust in Spock and was let down, and came to believe that Spock and the Federation never cared about saving Romulus. That makes perfect sense to me.
Comics don't matter though. Everything should be self-contained within the movie.
And Believer Bob totally nailed it, Digific Writer. Just because the guy was stupid doesn't mean he didn't have his own reasons or story that could be expounded upon.
And there's the issue of scale. Many people have killed, even in drastic numbers, but nobody has ever tried to destroy a series of entire planets, and waited around 25 years just to show one person who wasn't even the cause of it.
And Believer Bob totally nailed it, Digific Writer. Just because the guy was stupid doesn't mean he didn't have his own reasons or story that could be expounded upon.
And there's the issue of scale. Many people have killed, even in drastic numbers, but nobody has ever tried to destroy a series of entire planets, and waited around 25 years just to show one person who wasn't even the cause of it.
Not me.
Makes sense to be disappointed and heartbroken, yes. But to go on a kill-crazy time-travel rampage, and attempt to destroy countless cultures, civilizations and lives... not by a long shot.
Spock tried to help. He's not to blame. If the writers weren't bound to keep the character of Spock Prime sacred and flawless, they could've produced a deep, intricate plot and well-developed villain... *sigh*
I can't remember the specifics of his explanation, but when Nero showed the image of his wife and explained what had happened, did this not include his basis for hating Spock?
Unfortunately most of this isn't in the film. I assume there must be some supplemental material that expands on this or is a cut scene. What is with writers not being able to include important relevant information? Moore was really bad about this with BSG and it looks the same way with Abrams although I'm not even sure if this information was included it would have made the story any better.
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