Spoilers The Timeless Children grade and discussion thread

[JoeZhang]

Well, that was a bit of a muddle. Fun, well shot, good scenes for everybody, but not a permanent game-changer, because there's a built-in get-out-of-jail-free card in the simple fact of who was telling us all this stuff, and in what format/setting...

Fairly easy to make it all a lie from the Time-lords who are actually all still alive and it's all misdirection to hide that.

What gets tricky is if next season is the Doctor trying to find her real species and we actually find them..

 

[The Nth Doctor]

RuthDoc herself is the only 'real' anomaly, still.

Agreed. We know that something odd is going on with The Ruth Doctor but the revelations from The Master and the Matrix's possible lies don't necessarily fully explain her existence. And anything we got from "her" in the Matrix can't be taken strictly as truth either since it wasn't actually her.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I pondered earlier whether anyone would care or whether the everything changes stuff was just over-hyping. Clearly we now have the answer- no and yes, respectively....

 

[OCD Geek]

Wait. Douglas Adams was showrunner when he created Shada, so it would fall under the BBC copyright. Presumably. But then again Robert Holmes' estate was able to license to Lawrence Miles for his Faction Paradox audios both his pre-showrunner creations (Sontarans) AND his creations as showrunner (Sutekh, those cyborg dudes from The Talons of Weng-Chiang). So who the fuck knows.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Agreed. We know that something odd is going on with The Ruth Doctor but the revelations from The Master and the Matrix's possible lies don't necessarily fully explain her existence. And anything we got from "her" in the Matrix can't be taken strictly as truth either since it wasn't actually her.

Even the Doctor's own memories are suspect, since the Master sent her the visions.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Even the Doctor's own memories are suspect, since the Master sent her the visions.

Oh, good point there.

Yup, as it stands now, all of these revelations could easily turn to dust. It's all a matter of what we learn next season, potentially independent of The Master.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

As Allyn said, this has Big Finish written all over it.

Yeah, and if BBC Books had an active publishing line, the editor could expect pitches in his/her inbox by morning.

Similar situation, I've heard that BBC Books received pitches and proposals for books with the Joanna Lumley Doctor after "Curse of the Fatal Death." Lawrence Miles talked about his, which involved The War and a number of different BBC properties.

 

[CaptainWacky]

So why did Jack think it was so important to warn the Doctor not to give the lone Cyberman what he wanted? The Doctor gave the lone Cyberman what he wanted and everything turned out fine anyway!

 

[zarkon]

Basically Chibnell melded the cartmel masterplan and "series 6b" with some minor changes.

I'm not sure why he expected anyone to be shocked

 

[The Nth Doctor]

It occurs to me that the rumor about Yaz becoming a Cyberman was, in fact, partially true.

 

[matthunter]

Can I also add that I wasn't sold on Dhawan as the Master in Spyfall, but here he knocked it out of the park - he has that same way of looking at you dangerously that Matt Smith did whenever his Doctor got angry.

 

[zarkon]

So why did Jack think it was so important to warn the Doctor not to give the lone Cyberman what he wanted? The Doctor gave the lone Cyberman what he wanted and everything turned out fine anyway!

Sounded like the master (and perhaps his cyberlords) got away, so things could potentially be dire yet

 

[diankra]

I can't see it until tomorrow, but if the added Doctors from "Morbius" aren't due to the Doctor outmaneuvering Morbius with the mind control game, then what... the same incarnation of Doctor had stated he had regenerated two or three times in the past, which discounts the Morbius add-in package. Never mind outright spoken dialogue from Time Lords in asking about the earliest incarnation ("The Three Doctors"), and "Day of the Daleks" which shows only 2 prior incarnations. Unless season 6B has the 2nd Doctor becoming the Morbius Doctors and then the third, complete with mental block... In the end, it doesn't change too much and will be overrode by some other showrunner and/or novel in the future.

But all this is the problem in expanding or fixing disjointed canon, which was also attempted in the 1980s, (which also solidifies the regeneration counter).

I don't recall where Jack said he would return. It was just a silly cameo to drive up ratings.

But it sounds like Doctor Ruth isn't going to be the Doctor in series 13. Unfortunately.

As pointed out elsewhere, you could (and now definitely can) interpret Morbius's line "How long have you lived?" as terror on finding that, on apparently winning, there were incarnations before Hartnell that the Doctor didn't remember.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I haven’t been a massive fan of Whitaker/Chibnall DW but I thought that was really good. I suspect a lot of it will be hand-waved away but nonetheless it was pretty enjoyable. And I really didn’t expect the cliffhanger at the end.

 

[Jax]

I thought Sacha Dhawan was Excellent as The Master.

as for the rest, Nope, Nope, Nope...

So the regeneration limit was set by that woman for no good reason then but the child has no limit? and they just wipe the Doctor's mind for NO REASON at the end of each 13 lives? Then why the fuck did 11 need the Time Lords to give him more Regeneration energy and why wasn't his mind wiped?

How did The Master wipe out an entire planet? The Time Lords undone by 1 lunatic. I mean i'm glad the whole Time War arc from 2005-2013 wasn't a giant waste of time, oh wait it is now. How is The Master still around? he literally killed himself at the end of 12's story and I'm sure he will pop up again with zero explanation.

How can The Doctor have potentially hundreds or even thousands of lives and yet The Doctor we know NEVER ran into one of them once across time & space. The Doctor legend is known throughout time and the Universe and there was zero hint, zero hint to such a mythology. The Doctor isn't even Gallifreyan but some other species It was bad enough when the Yanks tried to make The Doctor half human.

River Song's Regeneration ability was due to being conceived inside the Time Vortex but this episode states that regeneration ability has nothing to do with the Time Vortex and The Time Lords hadn't discovered Time Travel when they got this ability.

Oh and The Daleks can't get into the Tardis but Space Rhino's can?

I love Doctor Who, I re-watch it all the time on Netflix and for the past 15 years, it's been a constant for me to watch year in and year out. I love we have a female Doctor, I like all the Doctors to be fair (11 is my favourite) but changing the core character's history in such a way really makes me think i'm done.

If other people enjoy it then I have no problem but IMO Chris Chinball is a hack.

 

[OCD Geek]

How is The Master still around? he literally killed himself at the end of 12's story and I'm sure he will pop up again with zero explanation.

The implication with Missy is that she was the final incarnation, but even she wasn't 100% sure how many incarnations there were between Simm and her. That was Moffat's way of having his cake (the Master's final fate!) and eating it too (massive door left open for both future TV showrunners and Big Finish to easily sprint through for decades to come).

 

[Jax]

If this Master came before the Missy one, why is Missy so well adjusted compared to this version and not bothered about the Doctor's history anymore? This version is the most psychotic version we've seen, I mean he murdered his entire race (Somehow) and turned them into Cyberman.

 

[Butters]

The Master actually said it in the episode. Good idea, but it needs workshopping.

I’m running the episode through my head looking for something original.

 

[OCD Geek]

If this Master came before the Missy one, why is Missy so well adjusted compared to this version and not bothered about the Doctor's history anymore? This version is the most psychotic version we've seen, I mean he murdered his entire race (Somehow) and turned them into Cyberman.

She's had several millennia and incarnations to work through her issues. Like how the 137th Doctor won't have any Rose or Time War angst.

 

[Jax]

Killing your entire race seems like something you never come back from. You would think Time Lords might be aware of well you know there impending doom being Lords of Time and all.