The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

[Science Officer]

Yeah, I see what you're saying... but I still like the look of the nacelles too much, to remove the lower "scoop" section.

As far as the horizontal line goes, I was going to have a larger, more traditional pinstripe down the middle.

I still like the severe undercut, though. I don't know why, it just looks "right" to me.

That's fair enough - you've got to go with your own instincts and create the ship with the style cues you want.


Now that there is a comparison image, it's definately the lack of horizontal cues in the secondary hull that is bothering me. The things that lend to this are:

• The introduction of the TMP style torpedo bay.
• A slight straightening of the spine (to accomodate the torpedo bay).
• The change from a long base where the warp pylons join the secondary hull.
• Smoothed out hull - now symmetrical above/below the deflector dish.

These give the rear 50% of the hull the feeling like its on a 5 degree downslope - almost like it's starting to melt.

Concerning my own "tweak", I was thinking what would it be like if you were to introduce a stripe styled similar to one of the three "deflector rings" that run around the saucer rim?

Concerning the warp nacelles. OK the scoop bits could be kept. But again the nacelle stripes are on a slight upslope, which to me doesn't work.

Cheers,
S.O.

 

[spiff628]

Awesome, I can see that you really put a great deal of thought into your design,not just for aesthetics either, it looks logical for the better part of the word.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Mad.... I like the beefy nacelles too, but one of the most visible differences in the TOS-refit was the brand new warp/impulse engines installed on the ship. A bit of originality is definitely called for.

Might I suggest that a similar transition from TOS/TMP could be applied? Say, remove the entire forward dome and expand the "lower scoop" so that it's actually the lower end of a much larger assembly that takes up the entire front end of the nacelle? I'm thinking you would probably end up with something that resembles the front end of a colonial viper, although with the angles involved it might end up looking more like the Enterprise is flying around with a couple of planet killers for engines.

 

[Johnnymuffintop]

Yes, yes yes yes yes yes.
She's wonderful.

 

[MadMan1701A]

My only beef with the original design is the saucer's lower dome has the surrounding sensor array on it that seems a bit too large. I wonder what a jjprice saucer top above a TMP lower saucer might look like, and vice versa...

Interesting idea... but one thing I like about the STXI ship is that it doesn't have an undercut area underneath the saucer. So, to make the bottom smaller so it can accommodate a smaller sensor array, it would have to come down farther, or slope in faster.

Here's a cleaned up secondary hull.

After seeing the larger secondary hull I do like the size but I like how the undercut went in your original.

Yeah, I see what you're saying... but I still like the look of the nacelles too much, to remove the lower "scoop" section.

As far as the horizontal line goes, I was going to have a larger, more traditional pinstripe down the middle.

I still like the severe undercut, though. I don't know why, it just looks "right" to me.

That's fair enough - you've got to go with your own instincts and create the ship with the style cues you want.


Now that there is a comparison image, it's definately the lack of horizontal cues in the secondary hull that is bothering me. The things that lend to this are:

• The introduction of the TMP style torpedo bay.
• A slight straightening of the spine (to accomodate the torpedo bay).
• The change from a long base where the warp pylons join the secondary hull.
• Smoothed out hull - now symmetrical above/below the deflector dish.

These give the rear 50% of the hull the feeling like its on a 5 degree downslope - almost like it's starting to melt.

Concerning my own "tweak", I was thinking what would it be like if you were to introduce a stripe styled similar to one of the three "deflector rings" that run around the saucer rim?

Concerning the warp nacelles. OK the scoop bits could be kept. But again the nacelle stripes are on a slight upslope, which to me doesn't work.

Cheers,
S.O.

Yeah, I think I can see what you're saying, but as long as the floor level of the shuttle bay is horizontal, it doesn't really seem to droop.

The deflector ring detail is an interesting idea though... I might play with that.

Awesome, I can see that you really put a great deal of thought into your design,not just for aesthetics either, it looks logical for the better part of the word.

Thanks. I was trying to get the big torpedo deck in there, for sure, since it's one of my favorite parts of the "real" refit.

Mad.... I like the beefy nacelles too, but one of the most visible differences in the TOS-refit was the brand new warp/impulse engines installed on the ship. A bit of originality is definitely called for.

Might I suggest that a similar transition from TOS/TMP could be applied? Say, remove the entire forward dome and expand the "lower scoop" so that it's actually the lower end of a much larger assembly that takes up the entire front end of the nacelle? I'm thinking you would probably end up with something that resembles the front end of a colonial viper, although with the angles involved it might end up looking more like the Enterprise is flying around with a couple of planet killers for engines.

Thanks. I definitely am going to be changing the insides of the dome, but I'm still not entirely sure what's going to be going on in there. I'm trying to think of something besides big fan blades...

Yes, yes yes yes yes yes.
She's wonderful.

Have fun, guys. I'll be working on this thing in the morning.

-Ricky

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Here's a cleaned up secondary hull.

The proportions remind me of the Metaluna.

 

[Science Officer]

One last attempt. In this one I've increased the undercut and changed the curvature of the spine.

Cheers,
S.O.

 

[YARN]

It's a significant improvement over the nuPrise, but that's kind of like saying that it's better than a sharp stick in the eye.

I'd like to see you play with the shapes more. I think you can keep the sort of identifiable look of the nuPrise as a refit and make more ambitious changes to it.

At any rate, it's always fun to see variations on a theme.

The tail (back end of the secondary hull) seems a bit too long.

The neck looks much better, but it would be nice to see it move a bit forward...

Maybe a (partially) convex deflector dish (rolling with the metaluna vibe)?

 

[judexavier]

Oh what the hell.
I know, perhaps a bit too...traditional?
(The word "REFIT" stuck in my head...)

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg178/judexavier/WIP014-2.jpg

Being more serious, for the dome guts, what about revisiting
that earlier Church sketch, with the cool exotic looking "reverse turbine" structure? For some reason, that seemed more "bussard/matter-sucking" than what they ended up using.

 

[Kaiser]

Very awesome judexavier

 

[judexavier]

I had another thought (scary), what if you tried exaggerating
some of the features in the Church ship, (rather than minimize them) like making the entire ventral shape of the 2ndary hull a cutout, right up to the deflector structure.
I'm also intrigued with that idea about the nacelle scoops (the "viper" idea)...

Anyway, I need to shut up and let you get back to it.

 

[MadMan1701A]

One last attempt. In this one I've increased the undercut and changed the curvature of the spine.
Cheers,
S.O.

Yep, I like that better, but it's still really close to they way I already have it.

It's a significant improvement over the nuPrise, but that's kind of like saying that it's better than a sharp stick in the eye.

I'd like to see you play with the shapes more. I think you can keep the sort of identifiable look of the nuPrise as a refit and make more ambitious changes to it.

At any rate, it's always fun to see variations on a theme.

The tail (back end of the secondary hull) seems a bit too long.

The neck looks much better, but it would be nice to see it move a bit forward...

Maybe a (partially) convex deflector dish (rolling with the metaluna vibe)?

I did think about having a convex cover over the dish, but I thought that would make that area stick out even more.

Oh what the hell.
I know, perhaps a bit too...traditional?
(The word "REFIT" stuck in my head...)

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg178/judexavier/WIP014-2.jpg

Being more serious, for the dome guts, what about revisiting
that earlier Church sketch, with the cool exotic looking "reverse turbine" structure? For some reason, that seemed more "bussard/matter-sucking" than what they ended up using.

That's awesome. It kind of reminds me of my Defiant, though.

The concave look is a great idea... I think I'm going to go that way.

I had another thought (scary), what if you tried exaggerating
some of the features in the Church ship, (rather than minimize them) like making the entire ventral shape of the 2ndary hull a cutout, right up to the deflector structure.
I'm also intrigued with that idea about the nacelle scoops (the "viper" idea)...

Anyway, I need to shut up and let you get back to it.

Hmm, you feel like sketching that out? I'm not sure how the hull would look that thin in the bottom. But, for another ship, though...

Later guys...

 

[Science Officer]

It's closer because it seems that a number of posters like a large undercut. But I'm still attempting to fix the "droop" that I see on the rear 50% of the hull. To me the straighter, steeper spine and the massive undercut just don't work. It's obvious when you flick between your original design and my hack.

I've also had a look at the torpedo bay. To me it's a little too TMPish. I think that existing contours of the neck offer you the chance to widen the bay without having to make it so much taller. Image below...

I'd make the back of the bay all the way to that step flush against the neck. Probably introduce a panel line to the top of the bay like you see on the bottom - keep them horizontal. The aim would be not to introduce height at the front, just change it from 2 launchers to 4 - otherwise why would you bother refitting it?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see where you take your design next.

Cheers,
S.O.

 

[JES]

Is this supposed to be the AU version of TMP-era Enterprise, or more like the equivalent to the 2265 upgrade?

I'm liking how the torpedo launcher is blending with the neck. I would personally suggest adding an additional one or two torpedo launchers above the sensor dome, similar to the original Enterprise. I feel that is what should have been done in the first place, because it is here that there is plenty of room for the weapons and magazines, and they are relatively safe from getting heavily damaged.

At the very least, I would also add two single phaser turrets on the aft similar to how many Constitutions have them mounted (such as your Defiant), so that she no longer has the weakness of having little aft firing capabilities.

I'm also wondering how the nacelle pylons would look if they had a bit of a curve (from the side view; I'm not thinking about them curving upwards).

 

[publiusr]

Just a point of clarification--I wasn't talking about the under cut, the scalloping out of the region near the edge of the saucer--I think that it is good that that has been flattened out. I was refering to the blocky sensor boxes near the lower sensor dome. In the refit, the dome is prominant and the blocky boxes are small. In JJ, the boxes seem to dominate, and ruin the lower dome structure's flow...

 

[MadMan1701A]

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. "Real Life" stuff keeps happening...

It's closer because it seems that a number of posters like a large undercut. But I'm still attempting to fix the "droop" that I see on the rear 50% of the hull. To me the straighter, steeper spine and the massive undercut just don't work. It's obvious when you flick between your original design and my hack.

I've also had a look at the torpedo bay. To me it's a little too TMPish. I think that existing contours of the neck offer you the chance to widen the bay without having to make it so much taller. Image below...

I'd make the back of the bay all the way to that step flush against the neck. Probably introduce a panel line to the top of the bay like you see on the bottom - keep them horizontal. The aim would be not to introduce height at the front, just change it from 2 launchers to 4 - otherwise why would you bother refitting it?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see where you take your design next.

Cheers,
S.O.

Well, the ship in the movie only has 1 launcher there, so I was going to upgrade it to a dual launcher. 4 might be a little overkill.

Is this supposed to be the AU version of TMP-era Enterprise, or more like the equivalent to the 2265 upgrade?

I'm liking how the torpedo launcher is blending with the neck. I would personally suggest adding an additional one or two torpedo launchers above the sensor dome, similar to the original Enterprise. I feel that is what should have been done in the first place, because it is here that there is plenty of room for the weapons and magazines, and they are relatively safe from getting heavily damaged.

At the very least, I would also add two single phaser turrets on the aft similar to how many Constitutions have them mounted (such as your Defiant), so that she no longer has the weakness of having little aft firing capabilities.

I'm also wondering how the nacelle pylons would look if they had a bit of a curve (from the side view; I'm not thinking about them curving upwards).

Thanks. I do plan to add rear phasers, probably in similar places to where they were on the others.

Not sure about the curved pylons, but there was a sketch in the "Art Of" book that showed that they were originally going that way, instead of bending them like they did.

Just a point of clarification--I wasn't talking about the under cut, the scalloping out of the region near the edge of the saucer--I think that it is good that that has been flattened out. I was refering to the blocky sensor boxes near the lower sensor dome. In the refit, the dome is prominant and the blocky boxes are small. In JJ, the boxes seem to dominate, and ruin the lower dome structure's flow...

Gotcha. I kind of liked the smaller dome, myself... the one on the original refit was pretty big.

Still having trouble thinking up an idea for the guts of the nacelles... I liked the idea of the concave fins like in the original sketch, but then that leaves a while lot of empty room in there.

Later, guys...

-Ricky

 

[JES]

Well, if you're going in the direction of the actual refit, then I think you may want to take a look at these, seeing as these for me are the most memorable attempts to do so:
"http://madeinjapan1988.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=168#/d22hdbf"
"http://madeinjapan1988.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=192#/d1xdg21"
"http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/screenshots/File/104359/"
I think that taking a good look at these will help give you some ideas, specifically for the nacelles.

I personally like madeinjapan1988's design the most, and IMHO is probably a very good direction to head in. I specifically like the curve of the belly of the engineering hull and the way that the nacelle pylons curve.

 

[MadMan1701A]

Sorry for the late reply.

Yeah, those are neat. I really like alot of what MadeinJapan1988 does, but I don't know how well his designs would look in 3D, with the swoopy lines and stuff.

I'm having a problem, though, and I might need some help. I've been sketching warp nacelles all weekend, and nothing I do looks right. Really, the the only thing I really want to keep is some sort of dome in the front, and the fins. I'm almost leaning towards a re-design of the Enterprise E nacelles, but I don't know.

Ideas?

-Ricky

 

[sojourner]

I hear ya. The most difficult part for me is nacelles. I usually go through 3 or 4 designs before I find something I like and even then am never fully satisfied. In fact, the ship I just posted on friday will probably get new nacelles as the ones posted are bugging me no end.

When you say "dome in front", do you mean a literal dome shape, or just a red bussard of some kind?

 

[Johnnymuffintop]

Maybe you could get some inspiration from the rather low quality design I tried to work up before we new exactly what the JJPrise looked like:
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/066/c/9/Constitution_class_refit_by_JohnnyMuffintop.png