The Star Trek Trilogy...

[trevanian]

Kegek Kringle said:
Leonard Rosenman's score is probably the weakest original score for the series (not counting TFF, FC, INS and NEM, in which Goldsmith recycled himself), or anyway it's in a dead heat with Dennis McCarthy's GEN score.

Despite a few cues I like in the Kirk scenes, I gotta agree that the GEN score for the most part just doesn't do it, it falls into the 'graduation day' form of scoring I associate with lesser John WIlliams scores.

But I think the nicest couple original bits in TFF (the yosemite stuff, the god planet approach stuff) are among the very best things Goldsmith ever wrote for any film. That overshadows the pale reworking of the TMP theme stuff (and the klingon reuse doesn't bother me at all.)

As much as I appreciate any and all digs at Hoerner's lack of originality, his TWOK goup melange is awfully damned entertaining, I probably listened to side 2 of the LP (gee, don't that date me?) three hundred times in the 80s.

 

[Kegek]

trevanian said:
But I think the nicest couple original bits in TFF (the yosemite stuff, the god planet approach stuff) are among the very best things Goldsmith ever wrote for any film.

There are certainly individual momens in the later Goldsmith scores that are rather good, with the possible exception of Nemesis. But it becomes increasingly clear that he's basically recycling the music, rather than incorporating it and using it as leitmotifs (say, John Williams scores in ESB and ROTJ).

As much as I appreciate any and all digs at Hoerner's lack of originality, his TWOK goup melange is awfully damned entertaining.

Like I enjoy saying, Horner wrote one excellent film score. It's not his fault that he uses it every time. Originality issues aside, TWOK does have a good score, and some nice instrumental touches - I love the synchronous beats when Spock points out three places the hull has been damaged on a monitor.

 

[trevanian]

I'll go so far as to say he does TWO good scores, each of which gets recycled. He has the '80s contemporary action sound' score too, which he trots out in 48HRS and COMMANDO and RED HEAT and most memorably in GORKY PARK.

 

[Data Holmes]

Hornor I think finds a "theme" which he rides until the next "theme" comes along...

But when he's on, it can be some great stuff...


I think that TFF is really a continuation of the TMP score, but lacking something from the distance from that first score.

When it comes to the trek scores I see TMP and TFF as one. I see TWOK and TSFS as one, and TUC as a standalone which touches appon the first "two" score styles. I don't count TVH's score, as it never felt like a trek score.

 

[Kegek]

hutt359 said:
When it comes to the trek scores I see TMP and TFF as one. I see TWOK and TSFS as one, and TUC as a standalone which touches appon the first "two" score styles. I don't count TVH's score, as it never felt like a trek score.

Cliff Eidelmann's score for TUC appears to be more inspired by Gustav Holst's Mars: The Bringer of War (and Dmitri Shostakovich's Tenth Symphony) than any of the previous Star Trek scores. It has the distinction of being, in my opinion, the last really good film score for a Star Trek film.

I have hopes that Giacchino's will be the next score of such import.

 

[trevanian]

Meyer has said he wanted to use Holst, but then again, he also wanted Horner. The one time I talked to Meyer (the morning after TUC was finally greenlit, I found out years later), he said that he couldn't AFFORD Horner.

I threw out Christopher Young to Meyer as a possibility on the basis of his INVADERS FROM MARS score, which I don't know was actually used but sounds seriously Goldsmithian, but obviously I did not alter trek history with that suggestion. Though Young ekes out a decent living, he seems to do more electronic stuff, which is a bit of a disappointment to me.

 

[Kegek]

trevanian said:
I threw out Christopher Young to Meyer as a possibility on the basis of his INVADERS FROM MARS score, which I don't know was actually used but sounds seriously Goldsmithian, but obviously I did not alter trek history with that suggestion.

Judging from TUC (and for that matter, TWOK) Meyer did not have a Goldsmithian composer or score in mind. In retrospect, it's a good thing he couldn't afford Horner - I'd rather have Eidelmann's brooding Shostakovich/Holst score than Horner rehashing Horner.

 

[RyanKCR]

For how much I loved the score to VI I never liked it during the movie. It was too brooding. Even during the scenes with the heros there was always a funeral dirge feel about it. They were old and getting older but did the music have to keep reminding us? Couldn't there be an uplifting fanfare, something with energy?

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I liked the more moody score, myself, and the ending had the uplifting, perky sound...

 

[Kegek]

Holly Wookiee said:
I liked the more moody score, myself, and the ending had the uplifting, perky sound...

Agreed. Except for the word 'perky'.

 

[SlyCardie]

Merry said:

SlyCardie said:

The God Thing said:

VulcanJedi said:
Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

No. I thought all three films were cheap, nasty, stupid, ugly and manipulative pieces of self-referential, sub-cinematic shit. The same goes for ST:FC.

TGT

You've got to be kidding me. First Contact was by far the best TNG movie, and Wrath of Khan is perhaps the best TOS movie (VI was also great). How were they cheap, nasty, or ugly? Manipulative? In the way they had compelling plots that made them interesting and entertaining?

While I agree with you, I learned long ago that some people will not be swayed from their opinions and that it's not worth trying to convince them to change.

I see, I guess I just need to get used to who's who around here and their personalities. I didn't want to cause a ruckus, rather cause some debate.

 

[trevanian]

Kegek Kringle said:

trevanian said:
I threw out Christopher Young to Meyer as a possibility on the basis of his INVADERS FROM MARS score, which I don't know was actually used but sounds seriously Goldsmithian, but obviously I did not alter trek history with that suggestion.

Judging from TUC (and for that matter, TWOK) Meyer did not have a Goldsmithian composer or score in mind. In retrospect, it's a good thing he couldn't afford Horner - I'd rather have Eidelmann's brooding Shostakovich/Holst score than Horner rehashing Horner.

Agree on that last. I only listen to the TUC score occasionally, as it doesn't often suit my mood, but when I want to hear something different, that is one of the first I'll reach for. And it works in the movie as well.

 

[Aldo]

SlyCardie said:

Merry said:

SlyCardie said:

The God Thing said:

VulcanJedi said:
Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

No. I thought all three films were cheap, nasty, stupid, ugly and manipulative pieces of self-referential, sub-cinematic shit. The same goes for ST:FC.

TGT

You've got to be kidding me. First Contact was by far the best TNG movie, and Wrath of Khan is perhaps the best TOS movie (VI was also great). How were they cheap, nasty, or ugly? Manipulative? In the way they had compelling plots that made them interesting and entertaining?

While I agree with you, I learned long ago that some people will not be swayed from their opinions and that it's not worth trying to convince them to change.

I see, I guess I just need to get used to who's who around here and their personalities. I didn't want to cause a ruckus, rather cause some debate.

I see you're new here, so obviously you havent gotten used to TGT yet He only likes the first two Seasons of TOS and TMP, that's it. He dislikes everything else associated with Trek, period.

 

[cardinal biggles]

I thought his personal canon only covered those aspects of Trek produced with Roddenberry's direct involvement. IIRC, that means:

TOS Seasons 1 & 2
TAS
TMP
TNG, from "Encounter at Farpoint" to whatever Season 5 episode they were working on when he died.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

^ Hero Worship.

TGT

 

[cardinal biggles]

Thanks.

 

[Aldo]

The God Thing said:
^ Hero Worship.

TGT

You know, I'm the one who keeps telling everyone what you like and dislike, how come I don't get a commendation too!

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Santa_Clause said:
You know, I'm the one who keeps telling everyone what you like and dislike, how come I don't get a commendation too!

I utterly detest ST:TNG in its totality, Aldo, but I cannot just casually dismiss the show's existence as I can DS9, VOY, ENT and films ST:TWOK to ST:XI due to GR's nominal involvement with TNG as both creator and executive producer. In any event, I was simply reminding biggles of the particular episode that was undergoing principle photography on the day The Great Bird kicked the bucket.

TGT

 

[Aldo]

See, someone who dislikes TNG knows more about it than I do Of course if I actually read your post and not just the words "Hero Worship" I might have picked up upon what you were talking about.

 

[Red Ranger]

VulcanJedi said:
Wrath of Khan
Search for Spock
Voyage Home

Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

They should sell these as a box set. Do they already?

To me Voyage Home was the pinnacle of Trek's film success.

First Contact being a nice come back.

Dude, I guess you wanted the hatahs to come down on you, otherwise, why would you create such a post? This is the TBBS, where hate, like the creature in "Day of the Dove," lives and feeds! And breeds!

Seriously, I do prefer the four movies you mentioned. Now. to rile up all the TMP sycophants, I don't like that movie -- it's bland and plodding. The idea is fine, exeuction, moribund.

Let us watch the bees buzz in the collective bonnet of the TMP sycophants!

RR