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The Star Trek Trilogy...

VulcanJedi

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Captain
Wrath of Khan
Search for Spock
Voyage Home

Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

They should sell these as a box set. Do they already?

To me Voyage Home was the pinnacle of Trek's film success.

First Contact being a nice come back.
 
Well, there are dissenters. I think the Trilogy (or the Genesis Trilogy, as I've heard it termed) goes starts good but goes downhill. I've liked to consider TWOK-TSFS-TUC a kind of semi-trilogy and used to watch them frequently in sequence back in the day.

The Voyage Home was certainly the biggest financial success, and I agree it would make sense to release these films as a trilogy.
 
VulcanJedi said:
Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

No. I thought all three films were cheap, nasty, stupid, ugly and manipulative pieces of self-referential, sub-cinematic shit. The same goes for ST:FC.

TGT
 
Ah, The God Thing. I was hoping you would grace us with your utter contempt. :)

As you can see, VulcanJedi, there are those who hold the trilogy with less than high regard. Looking at the film franchise as a whole, I would say the TOS films are more or less a tale of diminishing returns - TMP better than TWOK, TWOK better than TSFS - before hitting rock bottom with TFF. TUC brought the series back to TWOK level and gave it a decent ending. The TNG series sputtered about listlessly and ended in igonimy.
 
I like the films just fine, but too many of the TOS films were wasted on telling one big story. If I had it my way we would have had 6 stand alone films that focused on the "Human Adventure" just like the end of TMP promised us.
 
My favorite of the three is TSFS. TWOK is awesome, but TSFS seems more like the series to me for some reason. Not too big on TVH, though. Shatner isn't playing Kirk. He's playing himself.
 
The God Thing said:
VulcanJedi said:
Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

No. I thought all three films were cheap, nasty, stupid, ugly and manipulative pieces of self-referential, sub-cinematic shit. The same goes for ST:FC.

TGT

Quoted for truth. :thumbsup:

Old Harve and Nicky went ahead and changed the core identity of the Star Trek movie from good quality science fiction to bland action flicks littered with over zealous fart jokes.

If I want to watch action science fiction, I'll stick with Stargate.
 
CorporateClaus said:
Old Harve and Nicky went ahead and changed the core identity of the Star Trek movie from good quality science fiction to bland action flicks littered with over zealous fart jokes.
Apart from a remark about Spock and beans in The Final Frontier, please point out the numerous fart jokes "littering" the five Bennett/Nimoy/Meyer pics. After all these years, I'm still missing them.
 
^
Quite. There are many legitimate grounds for criticising these films, but one can hardly blame a brief joke in TFF for the failings of TUC, TVH, TSFS and TWOK. :)
 
I think all of the movies had their merrits. Just because they all didn't have the same ones doesn't mean that any of them were bad. My personal favorite is TMP simply because, IMHO, it personifies Trek down to its very core. As I said, though, that's just my two cents.
 
Kegek Kringle said:
I would say the TOS films are more or less a tale of diminishing returns - TMP better than TWOK, TWOK better than TSFS - before hitting rock bottom with TFF. TUC brought the series back to TWOK level and gave it a decent ending. The TNG series sputtered about listlessly and ended in igonimy.

I'll agree about the TNG films, but don't see the latter TOS ones that way at all. I thought TUC was a downright offensive conclusion to the series, considering how it seemed to undo so much I had come to respect about the leads. By way of comparison, TFF, in spite of its faulty premise and spotty execution, had its heart in the right place, and as a result it registers as highly as anything else in trek cinema for me. All the time I had WANTED to spend with the main characters in the first film (and didn't get to, though we got other splendors), I got in spades on TFF. They weren't the same characters by then, but the actors had the same chemistry, which made up for so much else that went wrong.

Genesis Trilogy starts high, then aborts, as Nimoy-directed Trek is for me, Drek, as the guy rarely knows where to put the camera or how to move it, and for me, he got the alltime worst Shatner moments in SFS (which is saying a lot.)
 
trevanian said:
Genesis Trilogy starts high, then aborts, as Nimoy-directed Trek is for me, Drek, as the guy rarely knows where to put the camera or how to move it, and for me, he got the alltime worst Shatner moments in SFS (which is saying a lot.)

Nimoy isn't Wise, he's not even Meyer, but he's no Shatner either. Competent but no auteur. His films are as good as their scripts; which is why TSFS is a better movie than TVH.

By way of comparison, TFF, in spite of its faulty premise and spotty execution, had its heart in the right place, and as a result it registers as highly as anything else in trek cinema for me. All the time I had WANTED to spend with the main characters in the first film (and didn't get to, though we got other splendors), I got in spades on TFF. They weren't the same characters by then, but the actors had the same chemistry, which made up for so much else that went wrong.

TFF certainly has some strong character moments. The Yosemite teaser in particular. It's also got Goldsmith, who, even though he's basically phoning it in, does by default a much better job than Rosenman's TVH score. That's why in some moments I deem it better than TFF, but then I am known to reverse my judgement. There's more or less in the same ballpark.

I thought TUC was a downright offensive conclusion to the series, considering how it seemed to undo so much I had come to respect about the leads.

You mean their intolerance? I liked that. It partly came out of nowhere, but also made sense given the events of TSFS - and the idea of a bitter old guard learning to shed their prejudices made for a good character arc. It's a Meyer film, though - bleeping lights, and Shakespeare quotations to the point of incomprehensibility (well, Melville the first time round, but still...). The title is sheer spite - 'The Undiscovered Country', an allusion to death in Hamlet's famous 'To be or not to be' solilquoy, was his original title for TWOK. The title's significance would be obvious in that film, with its prominent themes of aging and death. He never liked the studio mandated correction, so for his second Star Trek film, and then constructed a rather flimsy pretence to do so - having Gorkon suddenly use the term to refer to peace, and not to death.

But Christopher Plummer has a solid turn as a scenery-chewing villain, David Warner is good in his small role as the Klingon Abraham Lincoln, and the thinly veiled geopolitics are deftly handled and blended with action-adventure.

I'd put TWOK and TUC at a tied but joint second best of the Star Trek films, a respectable distance from TMP.
 
santa biggles said:
Apart from a remark about Spock and beans in The Final Frontier, please point out the numerous fart jokes "littering" the five Bennett/Nimoy/Meyer pics. After all these years, I'm still missing them.

"Fart" was more of a reference to the puerile nature of most of the humor and not so much directly related to a bodily function.
 
The God Thing said:
VulcanJedi said:
Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

No. I thought all three films were cheap, nasty, stupid, ugly and manipulative pieces of self-referential, sub-cinematic shit. The same goes for ST:FC.

TGT


Ahhh, TGT. You're like having our very own Harlan Ellison around here. Don't ever change. :thumbsup:
 
sbk1234 said:
The God Thing said:
VulcanJedi said:
Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

No. I thought all three films were cheap, nasty, stupid, ugly and manipulative pieces of self-referential, sub-cinematic shit. The same goes for ST:FC.

TGT


Ahhh, TGT. You're like having our very own Harlan Ellison around here. Don't ever change. :thumbsup:

Indeed....

The Great Dancing Holy Flatulent Fowl is a legend! :thumbsup:
 
The God Thing said:
VulcanJedi said:
Everyone agree these are Trek's greatest sequence of films and really the best?

No. I thought all three films were cheap, nasty, stupid, ugly and manipulative pieces of self-referential, sub-cinematic shit. The same goes for ST:FC.

TGT

Okay, fine. I think I better understand where you are coming from now. You consider these later the worst; so I'd gather that TMP, the 5th movie (I've never watched the whole thing) Generations; and DS9 are the best?

Seems like Trek is basically two camps:

Camp #1 see the Trek as a good show and take it anyway it comes as long as it's well done.

VS.

Camp #2 fans who love pure science fiction and loved Trek because it was often very excellent mostly pure science fiction. But when it doesn't meet that standard are dissapointed.

I'm guessing you take Trek very seriously, which I can appreciate. The movies I like are silly in some parts. What about TOS? What did you think of that; I think overall it was more serious, dead serious (if dated) very dramatic. ??

Do you like BSG? Would you like Trek to be more like Heroes? Or CSI?

I could go for a Trek more like Deadwood or Heroes.

I think the old show met both camps needs; great science -fiction that took itself seriously and was well written and enjoyable for the casual viewer.

Hopefully JJ Abrams knows this; I'm sure he does and will try to meet both needs.

Anyway, so this OLD Trilogy, just didn't please everyone.


Perhaps the new film will be a new trilogy that pleases all! Hooray! :bolian:
 
^^^Actually, TGT hates everything after TMP, and pretty much all of TOS season 3.
 
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