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The ST3 Screen and Hull Pressure Compartments

DSG2k

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Star Trek III used the Franz Joseph rendition of the Enterprise on certain security-related computer monitors rather than the ship in refit configuration. This is odd, of course, and while we could chalk it up to error we could also accept it as a thing.

If we do, then the Hull Pressure Compartments graphic from TOS, as well as the similar ship view by the turbolift on the TOS bridge, potentially become very much more interesting.



As a what-if, let's ponder the notion that in the Original Universe there was a Constitution Class configuration that looked like this, and, just as ST3 had an older configuration in the computers, so too did the Enterprise of the 2260s. I have a mind to try to model it, but, before engaging in such a thing, a question . . . has anyone else done so?

EDIT: I refer to the exterior appearance.
 
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I have not molded it, but there are some interesting points regarding the layout and scale of the ship internally.

If one assumes that red is the habitable, accessible are in the plot at that time, and that blue are the closed off sections, and that yellow are areas that would not normally be inhabited:

-Going from top down the top deck of engineering which is red it Deck 7. That resolves the discrepancy of the apparent location of engineering in the episode, in what is said in dialogue versus what deck number many fans feel the special effects indicate engineering should be on.

-Going from the bottom up, Deck 7 is the lower level of the saucer, which would dived the Klingon area and Federation areas by the hulls, with the Federation having slight less control since one deck of the saucer would be controlled by Klingons.

-There is a ring around the saucer of blue that might suggest living quarters are around the outer edge of the ship here. From top to bottom, This would be Deck 4, which is said to be living quarters in "The Ultimate Computer."

-Alternatively, if each deck has two levels, the ship would have 11 decks, and be able to have 22 levels, plus or minus a couple based on the shape of the secondary hull, that more or less visually match other diagrams made later, except for them using the word "decks" instead of "levels."

It would be interesting to overlay this diagram over the ship exterior diagram from "The Enterprise Incident" or the one from the FJSTM. Maybe this diagram is of the inside of the ship, showing the areas a person could walk (yellow being only when the ship was not on a mission). The other areas could be storage or equipment of hull materials that a person could not walk within.

The deck/levels question could be worked out by suggesting that every two decks or so has the "space frame" running under it (hence the lines on the diagram), where as the divisions in between, which are not in this diagram, could be modified to have some rooms that are two levels tall and some not. Perhaps this diagram could also be laid over the TMP shape to see if the decks still line up?

In other words, maybe there is no ship that looks like this externally, but that this shows what an earlier version of the ship would appear like internally.

In another thread, there was speculation that ships with 1600's registries in TOS looked the same externally but were different internally wither fewer weapons, slightly different mission, etc. Perhaps this shows that. It would help explain why the Exeter had only 4 shuttles when the Enterprise always showed the Galileo as number 7.
 
it would be interesting to overlay this diagram over the ship exterior diagram from "The Enterprise Incident" or the one from the FJSTM.

One complication with that . . . the top-down view has a saucer that is too small compared to the side view.
 
On the same vein of computers showing an earlier version of the Enterprise, I had modeled the TMOST Enterprise exterior as shown as a line drawing in an episode. It had differences between the filming model and I consider that the "pre-Pike" Enterprise. That was easy to do as it was meant to be an external model.

Using diagrams of internal Enterprise systems is a bit tougher as they would be simplified to make them easier to convey information and not necessarily be physically accurate. For example, below is a diagram of NY subway next to a map. You could model something from the map but the diagram is just a simplified representation. YMMV.

u506brz.png
 
Actually, someone has modeled a saucer that is potentially a fairly close match, albeit perhaps a bit more stylized than I'd have done (not that I'm complaining). The lines of this one are remarkably close.


Overlay:


That's Pacific 201 . . . not quite right, but should give a sense of the final shape. (If anything, I could probably have overlaid it better, with the Constitution just having more rim, but you get the idea.)
 
Well I’ll be.

I have longed for someone to do exterior drawings matching that graph. Two—one additional to match the saucer.

I can see later versions with additions built around that core for extra room.
 
Indeed. The way I've been figuring it, if this were the original Constitution design, it would suggest the saucer rim started out as a single deck, then the second deck around the rim was added later.
However, I haven't measured the thickness to see if that's right yet.

The basic idea that comes to mind is the plastic-nacelled toy for Star Trek III (or Star Trek V in my case). I can't find a pic of the underside but it basically matches the shape of the HPC saucer as I recall.

https://mikepigottsdiecasttoysandmodels.wordpress.com/2018/11/05/star-trek-movies-by-ertl/
 
I find it confusing that the colors used for the compartments in the side profile don't correspond to the colors used in the top view, namely the saucer rim and the engineering hull back-to-shuttlebay differences. :confused:
 
I find it confusing that the colors used for the compartments in the side profile don't correspond to the colors used in the top view, namely the saucer rim and the engineering hull back-to-shuttlebay differences. :confused:

Actually that part make sense to me:

The saucer in the side-view image is viewed as a cutaway through its center line, showing the red area running through the middle of every deck.

In the top view image, it is a regular overhead view (or a cutaway view of the main deck of the saucer, what we usually call Deck 7), and reveals that the outer ring of the saucer is a blue area, probably meaning that in the episode, it is cut off from the rest of the ship.

The same two should apply to the engineering hull, but I cannot account for how the area between the nacelles is red in the upper diagram all the way across, while the side view diagram has it blue all the way up. On the other hand the exact location of the shuttle bay in relation to the nacelles seems to be a matter of debate...

To the point made about the saucers being different sizes, it looks to me like the two models are not aligned right to left, so that may have something to do with it. Otherwise, if it were my I'd just go with the larger seize and see how it fit into the shape of the "Enterprise Incident" or FJSTM exterior.

EDIT: After posting this, I thought of another possibility: the two images do not show the same deck/level of the saucer, and the one where the saucer appears to be smaller is a lower deck where the saucer is not as large in diameter. This would mean that the circular outer shape would be in a different alignment that on higher decks, and near the neck these two circles would create something almost like the "battle head" shape of NCC-1701-D. The ST:09 ship has this, too. Maybe they were thinking like this?
 
I like the idea that you might not be seeing the top level of the saucer but it becomes problematic in that the saucer isn't centered correctly.
 
Heh, thought of that but had convinced myself it was gone from the internet in a prior search. I was wrong:

http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/lp/lasdiag/enterp.php

Thanks for doing that.

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https://shop.startrek.com/collectio...erprise-ships-of-the-line-wind-tunnel-acrylic

I think there is footage of a rubber duck in a shock tunnel as well :)

("EONSES shorts: Rubber duck at Mach 6")
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The side view drawing of the disk firing Dinky is close to the read-out...so help me, but I remember a similar drawing of the never produced TMP version.
 
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So I wanted some blueprints of the TOS ship to compare against. I was looking for something by @yotsuya, whose canon-respecting TOS Internals thread (along with the semi-recent note about the tiny curvature change aft of the connecting dorsal on the secondary hull) inspired confidence, but I didn't see a clean set to borrow. While I've been an avid reader of it all, I admit I'm not perfectly up on my Sinclair vs. Casimiro vs. Shaw (whose site's down anyway) vs. Kerr variations and debates thereon, and senility has sapped my recollection of certain model variations. So, I sidestepped the whole thing by going with Art Colvin's work off of Cygnus X-1 as my "Not Mr. Right, perhaps, but Mr. Right-Now".

Caveats thus noted, folks have various ways of overlaying the TOS parts and the TMP parts when going over the details of the TMP refit, but there's an advantage in that the two ships both have known scales (hush, you). In this case, however, only the TOS version is of known length . . . the HPC version could be a variety of lengths depending on how extensive one wishes to imagine a refit (which is intrinsic to the whole hypothesis of an HPC version) to be. My goal was to try to minimize any potential total rebuilding of shapes (and especially removal of spaceframe) wherever possible.

First I needed to resolve the separate saucer sizes issue, where the side-view saucer is wider than the top-view saucer whereas all other parts seem to match. Various creative ideas have been suggested, but, to me, it just seemed a simple error, necessitating a choice of which to be viewed as correct. For this purpose, while I was fond of the idea of an initial smaller saucer with later expansion, it seemed to me that maintaining the structural supports for the connecting dorsal would entail an overhang after a later refit expansion, so I went with the larger side-view saucer as the correct one, expanding the top-down saucer to match.

I then overlaid the HPC drawing atop Colvin's version of the Cage configuration, choosing to line them up along the ship's secondary hull "strongback" with relatively similar secondary hull size, treating it as one might treat the wing spars of an airplane 'refit'. At 1100px for Colvin's and 845px for the HPC as scaled, the resulting HPC ship size is 221.7 meters.

HPC-Overlay1-Strongback.jpg


Features of this setup are the matching curve of the aft undercut, the near-identical forward nacelle girth, and the partial match of the nacelle pylon roots. The forward part of the connecting dorsal also appears to have almost the same angle.

Here's the setup realigned to the saucer.

HPC-Overlay1-Strongback2sauceralign.jpg


As you can see, the saucer superstructure (i.e. decks 2 and 3) and bridge size actually match up nicely as viewed from above.

That's not the only possible scale, of course. Here, for instance, I rescaled and realigned the HPC ship so that the saucer thicknesses matched up a bit better, ostensibly. This resulted in a ship about 945 pixels long versus the 1100 pixel Colvin ship, or 248.5 meters.

HPC-Overlay2-SaucerThick.jpg


This fits several preconceptions I had in my "mental pre-vis". The secondary hull also ends up with many nicely-fitting lines, including basically the whole keel and forward secondary hull, including on the top view. Only the shuttlebay area gets a little weird, but the ample posterior might work well for Animated Series fans and the shots of the ship with the loooooong secondary hull.

Unfortunately, some material removal is necessary on the saucer, which I'd prefer to avoid at all . . . unless you raise the HPC version up a bit. At that point, the various saucer convexities also match up rather delightfully, but things get weird otherwise.

Just to explore, observe:

HPC-Overlay3-Convexity1.jpg


Below is the same thing enlarged and with Yotsuya's decks roughly overlaid:

HPC-Overlay3-Convexity2.jpg


I'd mentioned earlier being intrigued by the idea of a single deck saucer rim, and if you imagine deck six with lots of hull and gear above and below, this sorta qualifies. The later expansion of the deck seven outer ring would lead nicely to an undercut, but the problem here is basically having to scrape off the outer parts of that deck five-and-a-half, which is quite unsatisfying.

As it stands right now, I'll probably keep playing with the ~222 meter version.

(Notably, this would, as I recall, make it no larger than the NX.)

More to come…
 
@DSG2k - Why not align the saucers at the rim so you don't have to shave off the top? If we accept that the significant parts can change between upgrades (TOS -> TMP) why not imagine the main neck being the variable that is replaced between the HPC and TOS versions? That way you can align the saucer rims to each other and the engineering hulls to each other.
 
@blssdwlf Is that different than the bigger, 249m version? I mean I admit I was lazy by not splitting the hulls, but it kinda worked without it.
 
@blssdwlf Is that different than the bigger, 249m version? I mean I admit I was lazy by not splitting the hulls, but it kinda worked without it.
Al Covin's drawings are based on the 1/350 model and Gary Kerr did their master drawings so it is indirectly based on Kerr. Also if you would like better copies of my TOS drawings, just pm me your email.
 
That's actually a bit closer to the AMT.

Maybe lay over Shaw's 1/650 drawing over the pressure compartment sketch?
 
@publiusr I show Shaw's site offline and just his Jefferies and 33-inch stuff on Cygnus X-1, and if I have that saved . . . well, let's just say I'm in-between organizational systems at the moment. ;-)
 
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