The Sith/Old Republic era

[Mr. Sin]

This seems to be the most popular era now among older Star Wars fans-basically giving us what we wanted out of the prequels-the Jedi and Sith at their height, a decent story, etc. even though the design work is a little too advanced at times-for instance, the design work for the upcoming MMO Old Republic looks like something that would be more at home in the Rise of The Empire era (Granted, a lot of modern prequel/Reboot stories have this problem-Enterprise and ST09 for example, but that's a whole other can of worms).


Fans have wanted Lucas to do "Old Republic" movies ( I recall an Episode zero being rumored at one point, and an early concept for the prequels was to have episode I establish the origins of the Jedi while saving the Obi-Wan/Anakin story for parts II and III), but this seems to be mainly fanboy wishing, as George seems wholly interested only in SW stuff featuring Anakin/Vader and to him, that's where the story begins and ends....although TOR has more creative possibilities than say, post-ROTJ EU which seems to be running out of ideas and make the victory in ROTJ seem meaningless (Although there's still some good stuff coming out of that era). Clone Wars is decent but has caused all sorts of continuity issues, unfortunately. (I'm beginning to wonder if it's an alternate timeline to previous Clone Wars EU).


I'm curious what the creators of the whole "ancient" Star Wars Universe, Tom Veitch and Kevin J. Anderson, feel about their stuff inspiring all this...

 

[Kegg]

even though the design work is a little too advanced at times-

In Star Wars I don't think that really means anything. The prequels looked more advanced then their sequels, for example. I'd chalk it up to technology not really going anywhere fast for whatever reason (there's nowhere else for it to go?), but either way, Star Wars, the tech is there for show only.

That said I'm msotly interested in the Old Republic not as a 'period', but as a rather worthwhile setting for videogames, which is of course what it was designed for. I enjoyed both KOTORs immensely and I'm looking forward to TOR. Do I really want an Old Republic movie? Well. Maybe if the BioWare folks did it in house (which is what they did for the cinematic trailer for TOR), but otherwise no. There's nothing about the actual concept or period that's innately more interesting than the prequel era - the writing is just more involving.

 

[Canadave]

^ Indeed. What could you do in a movie that Bioware hasn't already done well?

 

[Reverend]

I have to admit that I'm extremely underwhelmed by KotOR so far. Irritating combat mechanics and the extremely long, slow start aside, the art direction is so disappointingly similar to the movies. I say disappointing because I really liked the distinct style of the old "Tale of the Jedi" books and considering the game is supposed to take place only a few decades after that, the look bares not even a vague resemblance.

Mind you, though I haven't kept up with the expanded universe (I quit reading the novels back when the Solo kids were still kids) I gather most of those "early" Old Republic books have been somewhat marginalised. I mean, wasn't Nomi and Vima Sunrider supposed to some hugely important destiny?

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Why the Old Republic era is interesting is because of the large amount of history and the lack of really any information, except small bits here or there.

 

[Skywalker]

I never really understood the complaints about the KotOR era seeming too advanced, since it's four thousand years before the movies. While that's true, it's also twenty-one thousand years after the Galactic Republic was established. I find it hard to believe that, in more than twenty millennia, galactic society would not already be extremely advanced and sophisticated.

 

[CorporalClegg]

^
I just find it funny because it pretty much implies everyone was content with the status quo for 4,000 years.

 

[RoJoHen]

^
I just find it funny because it pretty much implies everyone was content with the status quo for 4,000 years.

Maybe they're just being really retro.

 

[Reverend]

I never really understood the complaints about the KotOR era seeming too advanced, since it's four thousand years before the movies. While that's true, it's also twenty-one thousand years after the Galactic Republic was established. I find it hard to believe that, in more than twenty millennia, galactic society would not already be extremely advanced and sophisticated.

Like I said, I don't think it was so much about the level of advancement as the aesthetic being disharmoniousness with that of the Ulic Qel-Droma/Exar Kun period comics it's supposed to supervene.

I don't have a problem with the technology being just as "advanced" as the movie era, in fact I rather like the idea of it being significantly more advanced in some areas. I can see with all the galactic wars that some technology is bound to be lost of the millennia.
What I did mind was the same utilitarian look as the movie era where the comics had shown just about everything from ships, to building, weapons, clothes and droids to have a somewhat ornate yet at the same time harsh and rugged look to them. Justify it any way you please, but it was clearly an conscious effort to evoke the movies and I felt it robbed the period of it's uniqueness.

 

[Kegg]

it was clearly an conscious effort to evoke the movies and I felt it robbed the period of it's uniqueness.

Of course. This is even more obvious in the TOR blogs, where the buzzword is 'iconic' Star Wars, and they spell out the relationship the different classes have to characters from the original trilogy - the Jedi Consular is Obi-Wan, the Smuggler is Han Solo, etc. The same is also true for the Obsidian game - Mira and Hanharr are basically a twisted take on Han Solo and Chewbacca.

But the KOTOR series has never been about a 'period.' It is the Star Wars mythos reworked for a gaming format - picking and choosing which elements work and why. Setting it in the past is basically an excuse to allow it to fit into the greater Star Wars continuity somehow.

Which I'm pretty cool with, to be honest.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

But the KOTOR series has never been about a 'period.' It is the Star Wars mythos reworked for a gaming format - picking and choosing which elements work and why. Setting it in the past is basically an excuse to allow it to fit into the greater Star Wars continuity somehow.

Which I'm pretty cool with, to be honest.

Yeah, Star Wars is a modern myth / fairy tale. When change occurs, it's because it serves the story, not because of some misguided attempt to offer a realistic portrayal of social and technological progress.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I never had any problems with the prequels looking more advanced than the original trilogy because I just chalked it up to things being more grand prior to Empire rule. That and the original trilogy not exactly taking place in grand locations in the galaxy to begin with...

The same thing could apply for even earlier eras in which there may have many many periods of great progress and great decline over thousands of years. If you looked at a core systems planet at thousand year intervals, you'd probably see a very different planet each time, IMO.

 

[Reverend]

But the KOTOR series has never been about a 'period.' It is the Star Wars mythos reworked for a gaming format - picking and choosing which elements work and why. Setting it in the past is basically an excuse to allow it to fit into the greater Star Wars continuity somehow.

Which I'm pretty cool with, to be honest.

If that's the case (and I don't disagree) why set the game so close to a period that's already been depicted if they had no intention of following on the same style? There's no real reason what it couldn't be one or two thousand years later or earlier, or some other period in the 25,000 year span of time where it doesn't matting if things look similar to the classic trilogy?

 

[Skywalker]

I never really understood the complaints about the KotOR era seeming too advanced, since it's four thousand years before the movies. While that's true, it's also twenty-one thousand years after the Galactic Republic was established. I find it hard to believe that, in more than twenty millennia, galactic society would not already be extremely advanced and sophisticated.

Like I said, I don't think it was so much about the level of advancement as the aesthetic being disharmoniousness with that of the Ulic Qel-Droma/Exar Kun period comics it's supposed to supervene.

To be honest, as much as I loved the Tales of the Jedi comics, it always kind of bugged me that the galaxy at that time looked so primitive. I get that they were trying to give it an 'ancient' feel, but to me it kind of came off as tacky.

But the KOTOR series has never been about a 'period.' It is the Star Wars mythos reworked for a gaming format - picking and choosing which elements work and why. Setting it in the past is basically an excuse to allow it to fit into the greater Star Wars continuity somehow.

Which I'm pretty cool with, to be honest.

If that's the case (and I don't disagree) why set the game so close to a period that's already been depicted if they had no intention of following on the same style? There's no real reason what it couldn't be one or two thousand years later or earlier, or some other period in the 25,000 year span of time where it doesn't matting if things look similar to the classic trilogy?

Well, BioWare has described TOR as KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc., so the events that are occurring during TOR will probably be extensions of what happened in KotOR 1 and 2 (or at least KotOR 1--since KotOR 2 wasn't their baby, I don't know how much lip service they're going to pay it), which means any more than a couple centuries' distance between the two periods, and they might as well do a completely new story that has no connections whatsoever to the KotOR games.

I do agree that they should have just chosen a completely new period and fleshed that out. The era around 3,000 BBY has next to nothing going on it, except for the discovery of the Hydian Way hyperspace trade route, which connected one end of the galaxy to the other, and opened all kinds of new systems to the Republic.

 

[JediKnightButler]

But the KOTOR series has never been about a 'period.' It is the Star Wars mythos reworked for a gaming format - picking and choosing which elements work and why. Setting it in the past is basically an excuse to allow it to fit into the greater Star Wars continuity somehow.

Which I'm pretty cool with, to be honest.

If that's the case (and I don't disagree) why set the game so close to a period that's already been depicted if they had no intention of following on the same style? There's no real reason what it couldn't be one or two thousand years later or earlier, or some other period in the 25,000 year span of time where it doesn't matting if things look similar to the classic trilogy?

That's a good point that I've rarely seen argued anywhere when discussing the PT vs. OT. In fact, after seeing the prequels and the array of sweeping locales featured in them and now in the Clone Wars, the Star Wars "universe" and even the story arc of the OT (Luke's "hero journey" and Vader's redemption) seems incredibly *smaller* in comparison to the PT (the parallel downfall of Anakin Skywalker and the Old Republic). But then again the OT main characters were "rebels" on the "outskirts" of Imperial society whereas the main characters from the OT were, up until the very end, part of the "establishment" that was eventually corrupted and twisted (via the Clone Wars) by Palpatine/Sidious into what ultimately became the Galactic Empire.
Also, considering the fact that there was only one young Jedi (Luke) who never received anywhere near the kind of training that padawans in the old jedi order received and that the only other force users (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin/Vader, Palpatine/Sidious) featured in the OT were already pretty old and/or crippled by the time of the OT 19 years after the end of the Clone Wars, it's also hardly surprising that we didn't get the kind of dazzling display of jedi acrobatics that we witnessed in the lightsaber duels featured in the PT.

 

[Reverend]

Well, BioWare has described TOR as KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc., so the events that are occurring during TOR will probably be extensions of what happened in KotOR 1 and 2 (or at least KotOR 1--since KotOR 2 wasn't their baby, I don't know how much lip service they're going to pay it), which means any more than a couple centuries' distance between the two periods, and they might as well do a completely new story that has no connections whatsoever to the KotOR games.

I do agree that they should have just chosen a completely new period and fleshed that out. The era around 3,000 BBY has next to nothing going on it, except for the discovery of the Hydian Way hyperspace trade route, which connected one end of the galaxy to the other, and opened all kinds of new systems to the Republic.

Actually, it was the first KoTOR game that I was referring to. Admittedly I'm nowhere near completing it (only just got a lightsaber on Dantooine) but so far I can't see any immediate connection with anything from the the old TotJ stories.

As for how archaic things looked, I took it as being in the similar vein of thought as the tech in the Dune universe. At least so far as the level technology had been at the same level for so many millennia that functionality gives way to form and machines become as much pieces of artwork and expressions of style as practical equipment. Not entierly unlike the prevalence of art deco in the 1930's.

 

[DalekJim]

The KOTOR videogames are better written than any of the Star Wars movies, it's insane.

If Lucas managed to make the birth of Darth Vader and the Empire uninteresting then there's no way he'd do this justice. Let this franchise die.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The KOTOR videogames are better written than any of the Star Wars movies, it's insane.

Hyperbole much?

I'm a big a KOTOR fan-boy as anyone, but even I can see the ridiculousness of that statement.

You're essentially saying one of the better video games of the first half of the decade was written better than one of greatest films of all time. I don't think so.

 

[Kegg]

You're essentially saying one of the better video games of the first half of the decade was written better than one of greatest films of all time.

Hyperbole much?

I actually think this is a fairly legitimate opinion, though not one I'd necessarily hold - the original trilogy paints in broad but rather effective strokes, for the most part.

To a certain extent KOTOR is both the Star Wars we think we remembered seeing and the Star Wars we wanted new Star Wars products to be: Serious, thoughtful, dynamic, with a deep sense of its surroundings, and robots are kickass things like assassin droids and such.

 

[CorporalClegg]

You're essentially saying one of the better video games of the first half of the decade was written better than one of greatest films of all time.

Hyperbole much?

There are few people who would argue Star Wars (and or Empire) isn't one of the 10-15 best films of all time.