Citation made..
Opening for Nemisis.. Star looks like a regular Yellow dwarf.. not any kind of red or blue giant..
Opening for Nemisis.. Star looks like a regular Yellow dwarf.. not any kind of red or blue giant..
The Romulan Supernova: The final, canon word
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
My take is that is wasn't the Romulan sun that went supernova. I see Spock's mission to be a last minute plan put into place AFTER The Federation pulled out of the original plan.......we will see.
The same is true of all the supernovas in Star Trek, FWIW.
That is, of all the supernovas we actually get to see on the sky before they blow. Except for Beta Stromgren in "Tin Man", which nicely looks like the red supergiant it is stated to be.
But episodes like "Half a Life" show how easy it is to make "impossible" stars explode, by accident even. Star manipulation is an oft-practiced profession, with a number of different techniques, in many of the cultures at the focus of Star Trek. And stuff that can make a dead star go live, like in "Second Sight", or hopefully keep a dying one still churning out warmth, like in "Half a Life", should have no trouble lighting up a supernova when needed.
Does this mean the Romulan sun necessarily went up due to malice? Well, accidents do happen - see above. Perhaps somebody tried something clever with that star, and it misfired. Perhaps not at once, perhaps not within the lifetimes of those doing the trying (although one could expect said lifetimes to be much shortened as the result of the trying, this being Romulus). Or then another Tin Man came there to die, and didn't care that its prompting of the star to blow had consequences to the mites on the planets.
Or then it was natural after all, by the Trek rules of natural. It's not as if we still truly understand the rules of our own realm, either: basically all of the conventional wisdom on star system formation from twenty years back is now utter stupidity, all demonstrably wrong, and so much new evidence is mounting that the conventional wisdom today is not to believe in conventional wisdom for the time being. Sure, supernovas may appear simple in comparison, but hey, we don't even understand subspace yet!
Timo Saloniemi
That is, of all the supernovas we actually get to see on the sky before they blow. Except for Beta Stromgren in "Tin Man", which nicely looks like the red supergiant it is stated to be.
But episodes like "Half a Life" show how easy it is to make "impossible" stars explode, by accident even. Star manipulation is an oft-practiced profession, with a number of different techniques, in many of the cultures at the focus of Star Trek. And stuff that can make a dead star go live, like in "Second Sight", or hopefully keep a dying one still churning out warmth, like in "Half a Life", should have no trouble lighting up a supernova when needed.
Does this mean the Romulan sun necessarily went up due to malice? Well, accidents do happen - see above. Perhaps somebody tried something clever with that star, and it misfired. Perhaps not at once, perhaps not within the lifetimes of those doing the trying (although one could expect said lifetimes to be much shortened as the result of the trying, this being Romulus). Or then another Tin Man came there to die, and didn't care that its prompting of the star to blow had consequences to the mites on the planets.
Or then it was natural after all, by the Trek rules of natural. It's not as if we still truly understand the rules of our own realm, either: basically all of the conventional wisdom on star system formation from twenty years back is now utter stupidity, all demonstrably wrong, and so much new evidence is mounting that the conventional wisdom today is not to believe in conventional wisdom for the time being. Sure, supernovas may appear simple in comparison, but hey, we don't even understand subspace yet!
Timo Saloniemi
Star Charts set out a binary system, primary was M, secondary was K. Magnitude +1 range. Jed Whitten decided to ignore that in favour of GJ 3788, a G9V star for his Starmap site.
Well, this is the inner part of the Romulan system. A single yellow star, one planet inward of Romulus, one outward of Remus. Obviously not to overall scale, but the relative sizes of the planets might be.
Nothing much onscreen elsewhere contradicts that. And if Remus really is on a slightly wider orbit and only occasionally visits Romulus, we have our schedule for slave rebellions down pat, too. Much like with Martian invasions in scifi of yore...
Timo Saloniemi
Nothing much onscreen elsewhere contradicts that. And if Remus really is on a slightly wider orbit and only occasionally visits Romulus, we have our schedule for slave rebellions down pat, too. Much like with Martian invasions in scifi of yore...
Timo Saloniemi
That would be a few more weeks in which more could be evacuated though.
Nero's ship was enormous, perhaps he planned to beam up as many as he could?
I was under the impression that Nero didn't acquire the BORG upgrades to the Narada till AFTER his wife died.
Which means the Romulan home planet was already gone, thus he wouldn't be saving anybody.
I don't think any Borg upgrades were mentioned in the film either..I was under the impression that Nero didn't acquire the BORG upgrades to the Narada till AFTER his wife died.
Which means the Romulan home planet was already gone, thus he wouldn't be saving anybody.
It would be impossible for Nero to acquire anything, or do anything, after his wife died - he was sucked into the timehole immediately thereafter.
Spock went to Romulus. He failed to save Romulus, but stopped the supernova there and then, by creating a black hole in its stead. He then started for home, but Nero came and blamed him for everything. The two fought and fell into the timehole.
There is no point in the story where Nero would have witnessed the destruction of his homeworld but would not be in the process of chasing Spock. And the chase takes place exclusively inside the Romulan system, which is where the timehole is.
So, no Borg stuff on the mining rig. It's big and ugly simply because it's an asteroid-eating mining platform. Although perhaps Nero indeed took it home in order to use it for evacuation. But nobody would give Nero any Borg stuff before the kaboom, and afterwards it would be too late.
...Really, what would be Borg-like about the Narada? The Borg don't really do tentacles. They don't fire multi-warhead missiles. Supposedly the death ray drill was there all along, too, allowing the rig to do the mining it was built for. And as far as we can tell, the ship doesn't self-repair, and whatever was broken by George Kirk still remains broken for his son to see, or has been repaired by the miners themselves.
Timo Saloniemi
Spock went to Romulus. He failed to save Romulus, but stopped the supernova there and then, by creating a black hole in its stead. He then started for home, but Nero came and blamed him for everything. The two fought and fell into the timehole.
There is no point in the story where Nero would have witnessed the destruction of his homeworld but would not be in the process of chasing Spock. And the chase takes place exclusively inside the Romulan system, which is where the timehole is.
So, no Borg stuff on the mining rig. It's big and ugly simply because it's an asteroid-eating mining platform. Although perhaps Nero indeed took it home in order to use it for evacuation. But nobody would give Nero any Borg stuff before the kaboom, and afterwards it would be too late.
...Really, what would be Borg-like about the Narada? The Borg don't really do tentacles. They don't fire multi-warhead missiles. Supposedly the death ray drill was there all along, too, allowing the rig to do the mining it was built for. And as far as we can tell, the ship doesn't self-repair, and whatever was broken by George Kirk still remains broken for his son to see, or has been repaired by the miners themselves.
Timo Saloniemi
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We don't yet know how long the Romulans have had control of a Cube. It might be 20 years old. If I had been the Federation I would have reached out to the Borg Cooperative, Hugh's group and any other Borg insurgents and offered them a home in the Federation and the resources of the Federation in exchange for tech sharing. Maybe the Romulans have done that and these are liberated Borg working with the Romulans for that purpose. Borg and Borg inspired tech might have been in Romulan circulation for many years.
The Romulans were attacked by the Borg at some point during "The Neutral Zone" I think, which caused them to break their silence. They might have had more opportunities to learn more about the tech than the Federation at first.
Nero even describes his ship as a simple mining vessel, not 'a simple mining vessel that's been given Borg enhancements to make it super-huge.'
Yeah. Another sad case of people being confused due the non-canon sources.
Always liked that line and the Borg enhancements made no sense. So I ignored them.
Since Nero never intended to go back in time, that happened accidentally, it makes sense he'd have to modify his ship since there's no way he'd be able to get past 24th century Starfleet with a "simple mining vessel."
What do you mean? At the point of the story where Nero wasn't going back in time, he would have had zero reason to modify his ship - he was a simple miner doing simple mining, and supposedly the Borg don't give much of a boost to that.
All this revenge stuff only comes in the 23rd century: Nero is sucked thento immediately after gaining the motivation to do revenge, that is, minutes after Romulus blows. And he can't get any Borg tech in the 23rd century.
Or can he? He knows about 'em cyborgs while George Kirk's folks didn't yet. But his ship doesn't change as the result of any such hypothetical raiding of Borg assets.
Nero hasn't been equipped for revenge. He hasn't been tattooed for revenge. He simply wants revenge, and has to wait for 25 years before he can gain the means for it. By himself, he's basically helpless, a simple miner in a simple mining vessel stranded away from a home that will no longer have existed or whatever. Which is nicely evidenced by him losing hands down to not just one but two lone and handicapped starships under control of a Kirk.
Timo Saloniemi
