The Return of Bruce Wayne Disucssion (Spoilers)

[Admiral_Young]

Okay..DiDio has stated since the start of Batman R.I.P. when all the rampant speculation from fans was that Bruce was going to die. He didn't in that and in Final Crisis showed us that he was trapped in the past. Neil Gaiman's story showed us that Bruce was trapped in a cycle of birth and death (as other posters have pointed out) and Tim Drake (not calling him Wayne even though he's taken his adoptive father's name) has begun a search for Bruce not beliving him dead and has been followed by the League of Assasins and Ra's who also seems not to think him dead. Now I think Bruce is going to return eventually...I want to see him back in the present but maybe not as Batman. I mean we can't have two Batmen in Gotham can we? I would like to see Bruce maybe go the path of the mentor in Batman Beyond...

I'm curious though to what everyone else who has been following the Batbooks over the past year or so, what do you think of the current status, who do you think is going to find Bruce or when do you think Bruce will return. For myself I'm really enjoying Dick as Batman and I would like to see this run it's course for a year or so. I think Morrison will have the reigns over when Bruce comes back and it will be told at the end of his Batman and Robin run. I think Tim through the assistance of Ra's will eventually discover Bruce is not dead and enlist help to recover him, maybe the Legion of Superheroes will help or something. I can even see this occuring in next summer in a big event called The Return of Bruce Wayne (thus the inspiration of the thread title) Geoff Johns has said there will be a MAJOR Superman summer event in 2010 and everything he's done in the past three years will be leading up to...I think there should be a Batman event on the same scope.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Morrison has said that his vision for Batman is like a giant, five-part novel. Batman and Robin is part three. (I'm assuming Batman and Son is part one, and R.I.P. is part two.)

One reason why Dick works for me as Batman this time around, while I was "meh" on Prodigal at the time, is that Bruce isn't in the picture. With [i}Prodigal[/i], we knew that Bruce was still out there, and he would be back soon enough. Dick's tenure as Batman felt temporary then. It feels permanent now.

Maybe there will be an event, but I don't see it happening in 2010. Maybe 2011.

And what will that event be? Maybe Morrison will dust off his original plan for Final Crisis, in which Bruce Wayne become a God of the Fifth World.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I can't see it as an event, actually. I wouldn't work as an event. For Bruce Wayne's return to be effective and satisfying, I think he has to find his way back all by himself. The more isolated he is, the less resources he has access to, the more triumphant his return will be. If he gets any help, that will certainly tarnish the reputation of the invincible Bat-God.

 

[Mr Light]

I thought Bruce-as-New-God was just a fake rumor? It was actually considered?

 

[Derishton]

When I read Final Crisis (which I liked), I thought the structure was still there for Bruce as New God: the role of the Super Young Team (and to a lesser extent the appearance of Captain Carrot) seemed to be all about DC's split personality when it comes to generational story-telling. Do you want new characters, legacy characters, or a perpetual Silver Age? If Bruce (and maybe others) had become new New Gods at the end of Final Crisis, I think the theme of story-telling would have come out better than it did.

Then again, if Bruce Wayne is really back in the Stone Age carving bat-symbols, then in theory he can become the kind of story that gives rise to gods in Science Fiction stories everywhere. If to be believed in is to be a god or a sort of god (this works for Marvel's Thor, Tinkerbell, etc), then Bruce is already on his way.

 

[Broccoli]

I don't know if Batman would work as a Legacy Character. At least not after all this time of it being "Bruce Wayne as Batman". I know there was Batman Beyond, but that seemed different, possibly because it was a different medium (a cartoon, in this case), but also because it took place x-amount of years in the future, where there was no specific "Here, I was Batman yesterday; you be Batman tomorrow."

 

[ElScoob]

I have no speculation to offer on Bruce's (inevitable) return. All I know is that, while it is a certain a thing as death and taxes, I'm actually in no big hurry to see him back.

I know he will come back, and I do honestly want him to... but it doesn't need to be too soon. I'm enjoying Dick as Batman quite a bit at the moment.

It brings up a parallel, in my mind, to the Flash situation. Wally West became the first kid sidekick to grow up and inherit the mantle of his mentor. He was not universally accepted at first--not by the fans, nor by the characters in his stories. Over the course of the next ten years, though, he came into his own as the Flash and was more widely accepted as a worthy successor. Then after another decade or so he was pushed aside in favor of Bart Allen, and then brought back when Bart didn't pan out, and now is being pushed aside in favor of Barry.

I was as big a fan of Barry Allen as you can find, and I'm glad in some ways to see him back. But I became a big fan of Wally, too, and I hate to see his role diminished.

I suspect I'm going to feel the same way about the Batman situation--although with the difference being that Dick's not going to get ten years, let alone twenty-plus, to really carve out his niche as the successor to Batman. I know that there's no way in hell that DC would let Bruce Wayne lie fallow for ten years--especially not DC under Dan DiDio.

I'd just like to see Dick get his fair chance.

--g

 

[Turtletrekker]

^I kind of feel the same way about the return of Steve Rogers over at Marvel. I like Bucky as Captain America and would have liked to have seen the story run longer. Of course, we don't know if Rogers will return as Captain America yet or not...

 

[Admiral_Young]

I meant to say that DiDio said he was still alive just away for a while in my original post I screwed up. Yeah I feel the same way about Captain America Bucky myself, been enjoying Bucky as Cap so far and now that Steve is back I'm waiting to see how that dynamic changes.

Yeah Morrison's said that his Batman story is a five part epic and yes Batman and Robin is the third part of it. I liked the rumors of Bruce becoming a New God during Final Crisis but alas that didn't happen. The thing is I at least would like to see a mini-series showing what he's doing in the past. I hate the fact that we don't know what he's doing there (other than been transportered by the Omega Sanction).

 

[coolghoul]

^ Well, Bruce Wayne could become The Spectre or something.

 

[Derishton]

It would be hilarious if the Spectre became a kind of revolving door, like Madonna and kabbalah.

Batman: "Have you spectred?"

Flash: "Oh. My. God. Yes."

Wonder Woman: "So good. Totally."

Hal Jordan: "Meh. Copycats."

 

[Admiral_Young]

No...as interesting as it would be for Bruce to becoming the Spectre I wouldn't want to see that happen even as a joke. Altough he does make the most sense out of the characters they've used since Jim Corrigan died, the Spectre is supossed to be God's Spirit of Vengence (funny how we've never seen God in the DCU but other God like beings along with variuos Satan characters such as Neron etc) and Bruce's entire purpose for being is vengence so he would work in that way. I just don't think that is the right direction for them to go in.

 

[coolghoul]

LOL at Derishton's post - Especially Flash!

Admiral Young - I think DC has "The Presence" which is God - but not very sure. I seem to remember him being referenced by Hal-The Spectre-Johnson to Oliver Queen when Oliver Queen comes back from the dead (Collected in the trade - Green Arrow: Quiver)

What issue are they at for Batman? Maybe for Batman 700, Bruce Wayne will be back?!

Maybe he gets reborn or something and becomes a Robin to Dick Grayson (and Damien dies?)

Sorry if this is getting outlandish.

 

[Skywalker]

So are they going to keep Dick Grayson as Batman this time? I don't know how the fan reaction to that would be, but I kind of like the idea (I haven't been reading the comics, so I don't know how well it's gone).

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Wait? I thought the Black Hand had his skull?

 

[sidious618]

So are they going to keep Dick Grayson as Batman this time? I don't know how the fan reaction to that would be, but I kind of like the idea (I haven't been reading the comics, so I don't know how well it's gone).

No, Bruce will be back before long. Another year or so before he returns, I'm sure, but it'll be soon enough.

 

[Skywalker]

I didn't think so. Still think it'd be cool, though.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Of course Bruce will return eventually. I hope they wait a while, though, and avoid some the gimmicky stuff, such as making him the Spectre, etc. I'm enjoying the Batman & Robin book in particular.

While I've never been much of a fan of the Damien Wayne character, setting him up as Robin to Dick's Batman is a great premise. Dick's not only in the position of taking Bruce's mantle, but he also has to basically raise Bruce's son. It's the most interesting thing to happen to Dick Grayson's character since he went off to become Nightwing.

As much as I enjoy the Dick/Tim dynamic and the fan in me would prefer to see it, this set-up's the one with the most intriguing possibilities. It's also fun to see the reversal of the paradigm, with a more light-hearted Batman and a no-nonsense Robin.

I also like that Morrison's scaled back his Batman R.I.P. weirdness to a style of storytelling much more in line with All-Star Superman and some of his earlier DCU work. As complicated as things got in order to get the characters to this point, it's now refreshingly simple, at least as far as Batman & Robin goes.

I'd quit buying most of the monthly books, deciding to just pick and choose from whatever trades interest me, but now I'm picking up this one.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Maybe he gets reborn or something and becomes a Robin to Dick Grayson (and Damien dies?)

That's not so far-fetched. Something very similar happens in The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul -- Ra's has been reincarnated as a zombie (of sorts), and he needs to transfer his spirit into a compatible body. He wants to use Damien's body, because Damien is his grandson.

The precedent is there -- Bruce could need a vessel to store his spirit, and Damien's body would be compatible. In this case, Damien might actually be a willing host, because he venerates his father.

 

[Dar70]

So are they going to keep Dick Grayson as Batman this time? I don't know how the fan reaction to that would be, but I kind of like the idea (I haven't been reading the comics, so I don't know how well it's gone).

Of course Bruce will be back. Look what happened to marvel and the Spiderman Clone story, there was a huge fan back lash there. DC wont make the same mistake. Flagship characters always return back to the status quo quickly. Secondary characters like the Flash and Green Lantern have long term changes but even they eventually returned back what they were.