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The Refrigerator Theory

The same writers room was inherited by Enterprise that propped up the spec scripts on Voyager. In his soul, Archer was Kathryn Janeway, because the same writers room made the same decisions they felt were moral or cool which they believed a hero had to.

I Thought Janeway a monster by Starfleet standards or a perfectly ordinary Klingon Captain, but Archer was just an out and out moron. Did the writers room actually have the skill to generate different characters or did backula and mulgrew just filter these peoples acute bollocks completely differently, not that the writers room in season 7 Voyager which was passed on to Enterprise was altogether the same that much as seasons one through 3.

That explains the first two seasons of Enterprise at least, before they started trying to grow up.
 
I always felt Archer had more of an excuse for being incompetent, by virtue of the time-period.

It doesn't excuse it entirely, but it made it easier to swallow.
 
I never got the "Janeway is a monster" thought, to be honest. She and her crew are on their own. They're far, far away from any sort of Starfleet or Federation assistance. Her duty is to her crew, and to getting them home. She doesn't have the luxury that Kirk or Picard had. And, much like with Deep Space 9, she and her crew have to deal with the effects of the decisions they make.

Going off on a tangent, but I found this article recently, and it really got me thinking:

Do Real-World Politics Affect Star Trek's Prime Directive?
 
I don't think she's a 'monster' I just think that her character makes inconsistent decisions based on whoever was writing that particular episode of the week.

Some episodes, I am right with Janeway and she's acting in a manner I feel is consistent with what the show tries to establish Janeway as (just re-watched Death Wish). Other times, she is just being blazingly harsh/irrational/ignoring her own convictions from other episodes (Tuvix, Endgame, Good Shepherd).
 
Think of the thousands and thousands of swarmies she murdered in the Swarm. If her one hundred and 50 personed crew is at stake by anyone elses will than her own, she'll frag anyone and any number of anyones to ensure their saftey up to and including the entire universe.
 
That was a warning which Janeway not only ignored, but saw as challenge she was thrilled to zero sum because of her superior morality and wisdom.

If the contention had all been on the other foot?

If some aliens tried to board Voyager and Janeway stunned them, then set them adrift in space as a clear indication that her home is her home and they should stay the hell out of it, how many times should the alien boarding parties try to board Voyager unsuccessfully before Janeway elects to use deadly force, or they invisibly sneak through Voyager before Janeway notices them and gets super pissed about being ignored and begins to repel them and how many crewmen is she going to lose before she stops defending her ship and gives these bastards free passage?

You don't book a walking tour in Deliverance unless you expect to be raped in the mouth eventually.

The reverse of The Swarm, throwning Janeway on the moral impetus of the Swarm was when she was under a microscope in Scientific Method or to a lesser extent the Killing Game, or even Basics.

Hells, for this blood and terror, she was only going to shave a couple months off the trip anyways.
 
If Kathy was a monster, then karmically did Janeway earn her freezerspace? If she deserved her freezerspace then was being a girl a reverse sexism countermeasure that made it just too goush to give the Captain what she deserves ergo savnig Janeway from her supposedly commited fate for fear of seeming sexist?

If kathy was an angel then it's just simply not fair what happened to her and you might as well cite the lady as a latter day Job as god throws her into his freezer in the sky face first.
 
Janeway's death has had an effect not just on men like Chakotay and Kim but on women like Seven and Torres. It's a gender-neutral story spark. I can't speak for Margaret Clark, but it seems like she thought that there was more story potential in having Janeway's death affect the remaining crew than there was in having her be Kathryn Exposition like she was in Nemesis. There were other ways she could have been used, but a lot of them would have been as awkward as the Trip side stories in the current Enterprise novels.

Looking at Sisko's case, he was brought back, but he did not assume his old role as commander of Deep Space Nine. There's no reason to think that a returned Janeway or Yar would jump back into the positions they had before their deaths.

You might make the case that canonical Star Trek did/does not always treat women as proper equals in their roles and number, but that is not the same as falling into the WIR trope.

The whole point to this is that every one of the male main characters that have died have been brought back either in canon or in Pocket Books and the NONE of the women have. Pocket Books used a common trope of Character Death to motivate conflict. The gender of the persons motivated isn’t the question; it’s the Gender of the person dying and the thin reasoning by Pocket Books of killing of said character. That is the topic.

Did Star Trek as a series exploit character death, maybe. But the fact still is that Pocket Books certainly did and that they chose Peter David as the hit man and he was very aware of the “Woman in the Refrigerator.” If you looked at that site you will find his condescending answer among the rest of the writers and artists that commented.

You can argue with the writer’s theory all you want, but if you have looked at the accompanying Excel spreadsheet you can see she got her facts from “Memory Alpha.” The entries are copied and pasted from Memory Alpha.

http://www.jceternal.com/Trek Main Character list cv.xls


It is consistently infuriating that Janeway fans think that Janeway is criticised by male trekkers just because she is female, and not because she is poorly/inconstiently written for/characterised by the writing staff (a problem which VOY suffers in general but exemplified by Janeway).

And it is equally infuriating that some males refuse to see that many other male viewers really do dislike Janeway just because she is a woman. They will make excuses for every inconsistency in a male character but never do the same for the female character. If that inconsistency is pointed out as a defense for Janeway as in the case of Sisko and “In the Pale Moonlight” we get the “yes but argument.”

I always felt Archer had more of an excuse for being incompetent, by virtue of the time-period.

It doesn't excuse it entirely, but it made it easier to swallow.

And this is a perfect example of what I am talking about, Archer is excused but Janeway isn’t. It’s a double standard if you can excuse one and not the other.

Brit
 
It is consistently infuriating that Janeway fans think that Janeway is criticised by male trekkers just because she is female, and not because she is poorly/inconstiently written for/characterised by the writing staff (a problem which VOY suffers in general but exemplified by Janeway).

And it is equally infuriating that some males refuse to see that many other male viewers really do dislike Janeway just because she is a woman. They will make excuses for every inconsistency in a male character but never do the same for the female character. If that inconsistency is pointed out as a defense for Janeway as in the case of Sisko and “In the Pale Moonlight” we get the “yes but argument.”
Well, I am yet to meet/take seriously any males who dislike Janeway because she's a woman. None of my peers who also watch Star Trek feel that way. They do however dislike her character for the same reasons I do - that she is inconsistently characterised.

I submit to you:

1. First of all, I would seriously question the validity of any so-called Trekker's opinion if their core issue with Janeway is that "she's a woman". That's already a pretty clear indication that anything they think should be dismissed.

2. If their attitude is that bogged down in gender issues of the 1950's, again - why do you care what they think?

I always felt Archer had more of an excuse for being incompetent, by virtue of the time-period.

It doesn't excuse it entirely, but it made it easier to swallow.

And this is a perfect example of what I am talking about, Archer is excused but Janeway isn’t. It’s a double standard if you can excuse one and not the other.

Brit
I said it doesn't excuse it entirely. It was just slightly easier to deal with (and I perhaps considered it was MAYBE an intentional quirk on the writing staff's part), because I figured they were perhaps trying to drive home the idea that Archer was good natured, but very green and very naive - which is why maybe in First Flight they wanted to show how he wasn't the first choice for Captain.

Janeway had an additional ~200 years of Starfleet's experience at her disposal which Archer didn't have, so yes, I am going to state in this comparison, I can possibly consider giving Archer the slight benefit of the doubt.

Look, I guess the reason I am quite passionate about this issue is that back in 1995, it seemed that Star Trek was really behind the ball re: having a female lead, so it was a welcome decision to make the captain a woman.

By the same token, this was a real 'make or break' situation and I always felt that the writing staff couldn't AFFORD to drop the ball with Janeway. I wanted a Captain whom I would be happy to put toe-to-toe with Picard or Sisko. Not only did I want it, Trek (a supposedly progressive show) needed it, and so I felt the most integral aspect of Voyager was regardless of whatever the hell they do, get JANEWAY right at least.

But it didn't go that way, as, like with all television shows, things change in the background, and the character had to adapt to whomever was writing/directing her, along with Mulgrew's own portrayal. The last thing we needed was fodder for idiots who would take these character shortcomings the wrong way and label any Janeway incompetence as a result of her femininity - which is just bullshit. But it happens, as disappointing as it is, since I thought Trek fans were better than that.

TPTB ruined her character because they should have gone to great lengths to make sure Janeway was a positive role model not by simply just BEING on the bridge, but being consistent in the character's portrayal, reasoning, attitudes and motivations.

But of course what hope did the show have when Brannon Braga, one of the senior showrunners I can quote as stating that character development is "not something you do on a television show" (Generations commentary), a statement which is just entirely wrong, because what ended up happening, is you had a television series with arbitrary character decisions and changes, often without precedent, and often conflicting with preceding/proceeding events!

</rant>

I guess what I want to say; Janeway needed to be a better character than she was because it was important to Star Trek, and television in general - and anything less than that is doing a disservice to women, men and most of all, Trekkers (the good ones anyway).
 
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Other times, she is just being blazingly harsh/irrational/ignoring her own convictions from other episodes (Tuvix, Endgame, Good Shepherd).

Tuvix: This was a classic no-win scenario. Consequently, there was no morally correct or incorrect choice here. Someone would be lost either way. Janeway chose to do the hard thing and bring back Tuvok and Neelix. It was not an easy choice and it clearly cost her as you can see in the closeup at the end of the episode.

Endgame: I have to give you this one. This episode was so ill conceived it makes my head spin. However, Janeway was not the only one out of character. C/7 - really!?

Good Shepherd: I'm not sure what your beef with this one is about. I saw it as Janeway taking responsibility as captain for her "lost sheep".
 
Good Shepherd: I'm not sure what your beef with this one is about. I saw it as Janeway taking responsibility as captain for her "lost sheep".


Same here. Janeway had always said she should take time to get to know her crew better. In fact, she says that within the first three episodes of Voyager's run. So, her realizing she doesn't know these crew members and wanting to do something about it seems perfectly logical to me.
 
The premise for Good Shepherd was fine, but she acted like a real jackass towards the three crewmembers, especially the introverted officer in the gold (can't remember his name).

For an episode that was supposed to be about reaching out to some officers who were somehow ostracised or left-behind from the rest, Janeway's attitude towards them was either aggressiveness or indifference.

Also it felt like an episode that should have been screened in season 1 or 2, not late season 6.
 
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Yeah. :(

And, Deanna was literally mind-f**ked in Nemesis, as well as during episodes like Man of the People.
there's also the debate as to whether or not you consider whether or not b'elanna was sexually assaulted in "vis-a-vis" by steth who had morphed into looking like tom.

Let's not forget B'Elanna's being attacked in "Blood Fever" not to mention the alien that clamped onto her in "Nothing Human."
 
The premise for Good Shepherd was fine, but she acted like a real jackass towards the three crewmembers, especially the introverted officer in the gold (can't remember his name).

For an episode that was supposed to be about reaching out to some officers who were somehow ostracised or left-behind from the rest, Janeway's attitude towards them was either aggressiveness or indifference.

Also it felt like an episode that should have been screen in season 1 or 2, not late season 6.

She was bringing them in line as officers, not as wayward children. She was treating them like their CO. How is that jackassedness?
 
The premise for Good Shepherd was fine, but she acted like a real jackass towards the three crewmembers, especially the introverted officer in the gold (can't remember his name).

For an episode that was supposed to be about reaching out to some officers who were somehow ostracised or left-behind from the rest, Janeway's attitude towards them was either aggressiveness or indifference.

Also it felt like an episode that should have been screen in season 1 or 2, not late season 6.

She was bringing them in line as officers, not as wayward children. She was treating them like their CO. How is that jackassedness?

Because it's in stark contrast to the way she's dealt with her senior officers or other members of the crew (i.e. the title cast members) when they've had issues.

I am fine with Janeway taking on a sort of maternal/mentor role, but for some reason that goes out then window when dealing with lower ranking officers?

Also, it's a bit of a mixed message when she talks about Voyager being a 'family'. Either maintain a dispassionate command structure, or apply your casual, cordial attitude with ALL your crew members - not just the ones on the bridge (i.e. the people in the title credits) or the people she happens to be friends with.
 
The ones on the bridge didn't need the lesson of what it means to be an officer. These did. Even Mothers are sometimes hard on their children to help them grow and learn when, most of the time, they are kind and passionate. Things aren't so black-and-white when it comes to pushing people and supporting people to grow.
 
I don't remember her being a jackass in The Good Shepherd. I mean, she treated Tal Celes fine. And that hypochondriac guy needed to be brought into line. He almost killed them all.
 
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